I wonder how many SMART PEOPLE(tm) would hate assange if he hadnt published the podesta emails.
Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship
71–80 of 150 posts
Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Actually no - politics in democratic systems should transcend this immature behaviour. This isn't a democracy, it's a republic. Any compromise needs a supermajority of citizens in support of a majority of elected officials. With the two party system, often compromising can lead to an election loss even if the majority of voters were in favor of the end bill.
Sigh. It's a representative democracy and a republic. The terms aren't incompatible. Just because the dichotomy was James Madison's hobby horse and he scribbled it down in Federalist No. 10, doesn't mean that it is gospel. The US has been referred to as a representative democracy since its founding. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...
This doesn't change anything I said beyond the first sentence. They described what should happen under a "democracy" and since our democratic system is unarguably a republic, things don't work that way.
Sorry I hit some strange political nerve. I remember the internet being full of the "ugh, were not a democracy" posts too, but I also swore some oath to the republic every day for a decade.
Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except that a) the US weren't interested (ironically, they may be now) and b) he repeatedly refused to meet Swedish investigators at the embassy, where there was no chance of rendition whatsoever. People were dropping out of Wikileaks 10 years ago because of Assange's behaviour. Seems like Poitras is just the latest in a long line of people who are attracted to the principles of Wikileaks, but turned off by the reali…
he repeatedly refused to meet Swedish investigators at the embassy, where there was no chance of rendition whatsoever. Sources? Because this is the exact opposite of what I read: that Swedish investigators had repeatedly refused to interview him there. Edit: I googled and I'm still convinced I'm right: https://www.google.com/search?q=why+dont+swedish+police+inte... Edit2: unless someone can show sources moomins answe…
He was interviewed in the embassy by Swedish prosecutors[1][2][3][4].
1 http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/julian-assange-poli...
2 http://www.reuters.com/article/us-ecuador-sweden-assange-idU...
3 http://www.smh.com.au/world/swedish-prosecutor-ingrid-isgren...
4 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assange_v_Swedish_Prosecution_...
Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship
#74The unauthorized release of the Film has caused our clients to suffer ongoing irreparable harm, and exponentially increasing damages every time a new viewer sees the Film.
Somebody will be very rich, very fast.
Yeah, I know I'm fighting a lost battle. But that's the most ridiculous abuse I have seen in a while.
Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship
#75The other side: http://www.newsweek.com/wikileaks-attorneys-blast-citizenfou... "To be clear: our objections are not about censorship. WikiLeaks remains an unwavering advocate for freedom of expression. This is about safety. It is about protecting journalistic sources. It is about personal and professional integrity, and honoring contractual obligations. Our second major concern about Risk is the way the focus of the…
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Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seem political when people criticize Assange political refuge to a embassy. There need to be some insight to show why it is not political. It also need to explain from a historical (ie scientifically) why the actions are not rational. I personally have collected enough reason to be very skeptical against such criticism. The first Swedish prosecutor dropped the case. When it was restarted by a second prosecutor, se…
I am totally willing to believe that it was a setup by the CIA or some allied intelligence service. That said, once he was stuck in the embassy, he left himself vulnerable to being manipulated by the Russians and now it seems he is acting as a Russian agent. I think the us badly botched its handling of Wikileaks, Snowden and manning and allowed Putin to use them to his advantage.
> That said, once he was stuck in the embassy, he left himself vulnerable to being manipulated by the Russians and now it seems he is acting as a Russian agent.
I wrote something along those lines a few months back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13513523
I have little reason to doubt that Assange and Wikileaks as Russian agents. However, I'm willing to defer to Gruqg and his chain of deduction: Wikileaks was always destined to be become the unwitting propaganda horn of a foreign power.
Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship
#77The other side: http://www.newsweek.com/wikileaks-attorneys-blast-citizenfou... "To be clear: our objections are not about censorship. WikiLeaks remains an unwavering advocate for freedom of expression. This is about safety. It is about protecting journalistic sources. It is about personal and professional integrity, and honoring contractual obligations. Our second major concern about Risk is the way the focus of the…
This is an interesting argument: > Poitras has also violated her unambiguous promise to the subjects of the film that they would have an opportunity to review the film in advance and request changes, and that they could decline to appear if they or their lawyers felt that the movie put them at risk. So I'm wondering whether Assange declined to appear, and she refused. That'd be funny, in a sad way. Still, I've follow…
For some reason my mind immediately went to the fact that Wikileaks has to honor protecting its sources.
I know it should be real obvious that the task of protecting sources itself is most paramount in their operation, but for some reason I get the feeling that "full disclosure" includes "how do you get the info / who do you get the info from / tell us juicy secrets / tell us the truth about your legal cases". I don't know why, it's not that I do or don't fully trust Wikileaks, I think they can do both good and bad for the world -- not very different from any government, but I don't expect Wikileaks to get a fair shake from many people.
Everyone is looking to get the best information these days to get ahead. Information and data is the name of the game so the possibilities are really endless when it comes to the lengths people would go to get that information.
Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't know why people still support Assange so clearly. It was interesting to me that people on /r/The_Donald love Assange so much. Before this documentary, I posted there criticising Wikileaks and it was totally hated on. I find that weird because the idea that Assange is unreliable and fake, was the kind of somewhat-counter-main-narrative idea that I thought people of T_D would appreciate. They seem to see him as…
> I can't respect someone who talks about curing the world of ignorance, and having the courage to tell the truth, but then cowers for 7 years in a embassy because he's too afraid to stand up and tell the truth, whatever it was, about what happened. It was more about not wanting to rot in US prison, I think.
Well, us patriots would have found some reason to despise him anyway.. so why not get a room with a view?
Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship
#79I didn't know why he was so hell-bent against the movie then noticed this side link in the article: http://www.newsweek.com/documentary-inside-julian-assange-wo... Assange comes off as a real machiavellian style asshole with vanity and manipulation seeming to him at least as important as his cause. Snowden and Assange often seem to get lumped together but there's a world of difference in personal character, and also…
I don't know why people still support Assange so clearly. It was interesting to me that people on /r/The_Donald love Assange so much. Before this documentary, I posted there criticising Wikileaks and it was totally hated on. I find that weird because the idea that Assange is unreliable and fake, was the kind of somewhat-counter-main-narrative idea that I thought people of T_D would appreciate. They seem to see him as…
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Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Actually no - politics in democratic systems should transcend this immature behaviour. This isn't a democracy, it's a republic. Any compromise needs a supermajority of citizens in support of a majority of elected officials. With the two party system, often compromising can lead to an election loss even if the majority of voters were in favor of the end bill.
Sigh. It's a representative democracy and a republic. The terms aren't incompatible. Just because the dichotomy was James Madison's hobby horse and he scribbled it down in Federalist No. 10, doesn't mean that it is gospel. The US has been referred to as a representative democracy since its founding. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/201...
I think what he's trying to say is that a representative democracy with single-member districts (rather than any sort of party lists) and first-past-the-post, winner-takes-all electoral system, is inherently biased against political compromises and towards partisan polarization.