Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship • Hacker News Board

Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship

#61

Post by mowenz » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 12:11 PM UTC

honestoHeminway wrote: post #45

mowenz wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just politics? Here is an example: After the DNC scandal against Sanders with DWS resigning I posted an article by Greenwald on this in /r/politics. It was downvoted with such reasons as 'Greenwald is an un-patriotic [homophobic slur] who is afraid to enter the US because he doesn't want to face responsibility for his actions against the US.'

Actually no - politics in democratic systems should transcend this immature behaviour. Meaning, at some point of heated debate, those with no feelings involved take a step back, and find a middleground solution, a compromise with which both sides can live. And usually that boring compromise is accepted by the majority of the people. The problem starts when the majority of the people are cut off from economic growth a…

>Actually no - politics in democratic systems should transcend this immature behaviour.

We actually agree on that. My point was that it is my observation politics in general suffers from the above problem, not just Trump supporters.

Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship

#62

Post by macspoofing » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 12:11 PM UTC

WhitneyLand wrote: post #26

I didn't know why he was so hell-bent against the movie then noticed this side link in the article: http://www.newsweek.com/documentary-inside-julian-assange-wo... Assange comes off as a real machiavellian style asshole with vanity and manipulation seeming to him at least as important as his cause. Snowden and Assange often seem to get lumped together but there's a world of difference in personal character, and also…

>Snowden and Assange often seem to get lumped together but there's a world of difference in personal character, and also in mission

Is there actually?

Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship

#63

Post by bjornsing » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 12:21 PM UTC

WhitneyLand wrote: post #26

I didn't know why he was so hell-bent against the movie then noticed this side link in the article: http://www.newsweek.com/documentary-inside-julian-assange-wo... Assange comes off as a real machiavellian style asshole with vanity and manipulation seeming to him at least as important as his cause. Snowden and Assange often seem to get lumped together but there's a world of difference in personal character, and also…

> Assange comes off as a real machiavellian style asshole with vanity and manipulation seeming to him at least as important as his cause.

Did you get all that from the short clip of Assange talking Russia and Clinton...?

If I understand correctly the damning part (of Risk) is when he makes weird allegations against the women he is accused of rapeing...

Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship

#64

Post by empath75 » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 12:28 PM UTC

belorn wrote: post #52

19eightyfour wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why people still support Assange so clearly. It was interesting to me that people on /r/The_Donald love Assange so much. Before this documentary, I posted there criticising Wikileaks and it was totally hated on. I find that weird because the idea that Assange is unreliable and fake, was the kind of somewhat-counter-main-narrative idea that I thought people of T_D would appreciate. They seem to see him as…

It seem political when people criticize Assange political refuge to a embassy. There need to be some insight to show why it is not political. It also need to explain from a historical (ie scientifically) why the actions are not rational. I personally have collected enough reason to be very skeptical against such criticism. The first Swedish prosecutor dropped the case. When it was restarted by a second prosecutor, se…

I am totally willing to believe that it was a setup by the CIA or some allied intelligence service.

That said, once he was stuck in the embassy, he left himself vulnerable to being manipulated by the Russians and now it seems he is acting as a Russian agent.

I think the us badly botched its handling of Wikileaks, Snowden and manning and allowed Putin to use them to his advantage.

Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship

#65

Post by crdoconnor » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 12:37 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #64

belorn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seem political when people criticize Assange political refuge to a embassy. There need to be some insight to show why it is not political. It also need to explain from a historical (ie scientifically) why the actions are not rational. I personally have collected enough reason to be very skeptical against such criticism. The first Swedish prosecutor dropped the case. When it was restarted by a second prosecutor, se…

I am totally willing to believe that it was a setup by the CIA or some allied intelligence service. That said, once he was stuck in the embassy, he left himself vulnerable to being manipulated by the Russians and now it seems he is acting as a Russian agent. I think the us badly botched its handling of Wikileaks, Snowden and manning and allowed Putin to use them to his advantage.

>it seems he is acting as a Russian agent.

That's certainly what the CIA want us to believe.

Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship

#66

Post by crdoconnor » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 12:38 PM UTC

moomin wrote: post #53

mirimir wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't respect someone who talks about curing the world of ignorance, and having the courage to tell the truth, but then cowers for 7 years in a embassy because he's too afraid to stand up and tell the truth, whatever it was, about what happened. It was more about not wanting to rot in US prison, I think.

Except that a) the US weren't interested (ironically, they may be now) and b) he repeatedly refused to meet Swedish investigators at the embassy, where there was no chance of rendition whatsoever. People were dropping out of Wikileaks 10 years ago because of Assange's behaviour. Seems like Poitras is just the latest in a long line of people who are attracted to the principles of Wikileaks, but turned off by the reali…

>he repeatedly refused to meet Swedish investigators at the embassy

It was them who repeatedly refused to meet him. He offered to meet them repeatedly.

Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship

#67

Post by aesh2Xa1 » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 12:45 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #19

Judson wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I checked DKIM records and they did pass. Many emails did not have DKIM headers, but I never found one that contained DKIM headers, and failed validation.

Someone tested several on Reddit using two different validators. There were some that failed validation with one of the validators. Details are in the document linked to in the Reddit submission. Here is the Reddit submission: https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiLeaks/comments/58w8nh/the_podes...

Yeah, but the author claims that they are valid at the end of the post. Also see:

https://www.reddit.com/r/DNCleaks/comments/58v1if/dkim_verif...

Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship

#68

Post by loup-vaillant » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 12:48 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #64

belorn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seem political when people criticize Assange political refuge to a embassy. There need to be some insight to show why it is not political. It also need to explain from a historical (ie scientifically) why the actions are not rational. I personally have collected enough reason to be very skeptical against such criticism. The first Swedish prosecutor dropped the case. When it was restarted by a second prosecutor, se…

I am totally willing to believe that it was a setup by the CIA or some allied intelligence service. That said, once he was stuck in the embassy, he left himself vulnerable to being manipulated by the Russians and now it seems he is acting as a Russian agent. I think the us badly botched its handling of Wikileaks, Snowden and manning and allowed Putin to use them to his advantage.

> once he was stuck in the embassy, he left himself vulnerable to being manipulated by the Russians

Err, how? Does Ecuador have good relations with Russia or something?

Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship

#69

Post by belorn » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 12:56 PM UTC

empath75 wrote: post #64

belorn wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seem political when people criticize Assange political refuge to a embassy. There need to be some insight to show why it is not political. It also need to explain from a historical (ie scientifically) why the actions are not rational. I personally have collected enough reason to be very skeptical against such criticism. The first Swedish prosecutor dropped the case. When it was restarted by a second prosecutor, se…

I am totally willing to believe that it was a setup by the CIA or some allied intelligence service. That said, once he was stuck in the embassy, he left himself vulnerable to being manipulated by the Russians and now it seems he is acting as a Russian agent. I think the us badly botched its handling of Wikileaks, Snowden and manning and allowed Putin to use them to his advantage.

The Russian deal has a fairly good explanation. Clinton made some very direct threats and attacks towards Assange in media after the diplomatic leaks, resulting in a personal vendetta between the two. All that talk about treating him as an enemy combatant, drone attacks, assassinations and so on has made it personal. In that context, if Russia gave him political ammunition then I am not very surprised that he used it.

He is no more a neutral party when talking about Clinton than Clinton would be talking about Assange. Any data brought by one party against the other need to be read in that context.

Re: Wikileaks Documentary Makers Accuse Assange of Censorship

#70

Post by loup-vaillant » Sat, Jun 17, 2017, 1:02 PM UTC

mirimir wrote: post #43

nailer wrote: post #42

The other side: http://www.newsweek.com/wikileaks-attorneys-blast-citizenfou... "To be clear: our objections are not about censorship. WikiLeaks remains an unwavering advocate for freedom of expression. This is about safety. It is about protecting journalistic sources. It is about personal and professional integrity, and honoring contractual obligations. Our second major concern about Risk is the way the focus of the…

This is an interesting argument: > Poitras has also violated her unambiguous promise to the subjects of the film that they would have an opportunity to review the film in advance and request changes, and that they could decline to appear if they or their lawyers felt that the movie put them at risk. So I'm wondering whether Assange declined to appear, and she refused. That'd be funny, in a sad way. Still, I've follow…

> Maybe he's been a sexist asshole at times. The flesh is weak, no doubt. But I don't get how that can be a criticism of Wikileaks.

That's the halo effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halo_effect

Any quality, good or bad, will affect the perception of other qualities. If people come to believe Assange is a sexist asshole, they will trust Wikileaks less, even if the two have little to do with each other.

Another example would be Hans Reiser. Does killing one's wife makes one a worse programmer? Probably not. Still, I bet many people would be reluctant to trust him on file systems stuff, because, well, he killed his wife!