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C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

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Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#61

Post by jballanc »

The Turkish Delight in "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" was, for me, one of the first and clearest examples of how literature can project, even if unintentionally, a skewed view of a culture that bears little to no resemblance to reality.

I remember a while back having a debate over dinner (and eventually dessert) with friends as to which European country has the best variety and overall quality of desserts. It struck me as funny, and a bit sad, that an American who relied only on popular culture and mainstream media would think the answer to that question was easy: French! Of course!

Having had the opportunity to travel, work, and even live outside the US, I realize now just how wrong that view is! The variety of dessert foods in France pales in comparison to, say, Italy or Austria. Biased as I am, I argued that Turkish dessert cuisine was far above the rest, but of course all most people think of when they think of Turkish desserts is...Turkish Delight! Thanks, C.S.!

...If you're interested, some items to Google to understand what I mean: Fıstıklı Dolama, Cevizli Baklava, Maraş Dondurma, Güllaç, Su Muhallebi (for the rose water lovers), Tavuk Göğsü (don't read the ingredients until you try it, it's great!), Kazandibi, and my personal favorite Kaymaklı Künefe!

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#62

Post by dcminter »

ng12 wrote: post #49
dcminter wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're currently being downvoted and I'm not sure why. However, I don't think you're quite right about Lewis' motives so that may be part of it. Yes, he had a hidden agenda: the books are somewhat allegorical and intended to turn the child towards Christianity, not against a particular culture. I'd assume that the negative portrayal arose out of the conventional thinking of his time far more than anything more sinist…

He's being downvoted for the following unsubstantiated statement: > The Narnia books were C.S. Lewis's attempt at turning thinking, particularly child thinking, against the cultures found in the Middle East. What's more likely: that there's a cabal of staunchly xenophobic English fantasy authors or that foreign, unfamiliar cultures are great inspiration for fantasy stories?

The leap from a single author to a cabal is entirely your own.

That a single English fantasy author could be staunchly xenophobic is perfectly feasible and you could bring your own substantive sources to the party if you want to deny it in this particular case.

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#63

Post by kylehotchkiss »

jballanc wrote: post #61

The Turkish Delight in "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" was, for me, one of the first and clearest examples of how literature can project, even if unintentionally, a skewed view of a culture that bears little to no resemblance to reality. I remember a while back having a debate over dinner (and eventually dessert) with friends as to which European country has the best variety and overall quality of desserts. I…

I remember getting a french breakfast in London and then eating what seemed like "black soggy bread". It was Boudin. Gotta translate those entrees BEFORE choosing them.

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#64

Post by pizzetta »

jballanc wrote: post #61

The Turkish Delight in "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" was, for me, one of the first and clearest examples of how literature can project, even if unintentionally, a skewed view of a culture that bears little to no resemblance to reality. I remember a while back having a debate over dinner (and eventually dessert) with friends as to which European country has the best variety and overall quality of desserts. I…

Pastry, I would guess Austria since they have Wieners --what we call "Danishes". which is confusing since for us in the US "wieners" are "Austrian" sausages... but in Vienna, they are again called Danish pastries (Danisher plunder?).

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#65

Post by mitchty »

Veen wrote: post #29
ocschwar wrote: post #24

Uh, dude, this was written in the context of rationing and austerity. A kid whose had his sugar rationed is going to consider Turkish delight in a totally different way than a kid in 2017

I agree, and so did the author of the article, who discusses it at some length.

I rather like it to be honest. Much like marzipan its not super sweet and having a variety is always a good thing.

Unrelated story: I tried a keto diet for 2 months, all I remember is at the end of that two months I ate a piece of plain old whole bread. Tasted sweeter than any candy I remember.

So yeah, maybe we eat too much sugar in america...

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#66

Post by jballanc »

pizzetta wrote: post #64
jballanc wrote: post #61

The Turkish Delight in "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" was, for me, one of the first and clearest examples of how literature can project, even if unintentionally, a skewed view of a culture that bears little to no resemblance to reality. I remember a while back having a debate over dinner (and eventually dessert) with friends as to which European country has the best variety and overall quality of desserts. I…

Pastry, I would guess Austria since they have Wieners --what we call "Danishes". which is confusing since for us in the US "wieners" are "Austrian" sausages... but in Vienna, they are again called Danish pastries (Danisher plunder?).

And the strudel...oh, the strudel!

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#68

Post by ng12 »

dcminter wrote: post #62
ng12 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's being downvoted for the following unsubstantiated statement: > The Narnia books were C.S. Lewis's attempt at turning thinking, particularly child thinking, against the cultures found in the Middle East. What's more likely: that there's a cabal of staunchly xenophobic English fantasy authors or that foreign, unfamiliar cultures are great inspiration for fantasy stories?

The leap from a single author to a cabal is entirely your own. That a single English fantasy author could be staunchly xenophobic is perfectly feasible and you could bring your own substantive sources to the party if you want to deny it in this particular case.

Burden of proof is on the accuser, no?

I used cabal to highlight that C.S. Lewis is hardly unique -- if you think he's a xenophobe I can't imagine what you think of Tolkein or even modern authors like George R. R. Martin.

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#69

Post by santaclaus »

pizzetta wrote: post #64
jballanc wrote: post #61

The Turkish Delight in "The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe" was, for me, one of the first and clearest examples of how literature can project, even if unintentionally, a skewed view of a culture that bears little to no resemblance to reality. I remember a while back having a debate over dinner (and eventually dessert) with friends as to which European country has the best variety and overall quality of desserts. I…

Pastry, I would guess Austria since they have Wieners --what we call "Danishes". which is confusing since for us in the US "wieners" are "Austrian" sausages... but in Vienna, they are again called Danish pastries (Danisher plunder?).

Austrias got the sachertorte game on lock

Re: C.S. Lewis's Greatest Fiction: Telling Kids They’d Like Turkish Delight (2015)

#70

Post by makmanalp »

lovich wrote: post #60
slr555 wrote: post #19

Haters gonna hate. I love Turkish Delight. My wife had to travel to Turkey for work and frequently brought it back. I really like it. Actually in general, Turkish food is one of my favorite cuisines worldwide. I also like a lot of Indian sweets that many Americans find to sweet. No accounting for taste.

If you could name some of those I would like to try them. As an american interacting with immigrants and their food I've had a problem where everything they call desert tastes like a dinner item to me due to the lack of sugar. I can't imagine what too sweet for Americans could even be considering I happily ate nutella or pure sugar by the spoonful as a child

A note is that sweet dessert (at least in Turkish Culture) is not meant to be consumed en-masse. You eat a whole packet of m&ms or reese's pieces, but you eat only one or two pieces of baklava. It's a few bites of sweet to sweeten your palate and then it's gone. Though I'm thinking of stuff like Baklava here, lokum is also eaten a few at a time, but it's supposed to be not too sweet, rather of a specific flavor to stay in your mouth for a while, like citrus, rose, melon, pistachio or pomegranate.
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