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Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

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Re: Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

#51

Post by ooqr »

mcherm wrote: post #37
ooqr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be realistic about point a). And for point b), it's always truck drivers brought up in these instances. Yes, think of the poor truck drivers. I'm sure they love doing a dull job. If a job is replaceable by machines, it's not worth doing. I get the worry that people will be without livelihood, but it's not as if this world has a shortage of work to be done. If we had no more work to do, sure, bring on the UBI. But we…

> Yes, think of the poor truck drivers. I'm sure they love doing a dull job. I have met some truck drivers who DO love their job. They have spoken about the opportunity to travel (that from a husband-and-wife driver team who claimed to enjoy living on the road). They speak of the opportunity to own their own business (although, to be fair, independent truckers are becoming less common).

See: "And if people lament losing a particular job and having to pick up a new one, well, sorry but that's reality. I could just as soon lament not getting paid to doodle cartoons."

Re: Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

#52

Post by concede_pluto »

mojomark wrote: post #9

"We identified the emergence of entire categories of new, uniquely human jobs... trainers, explainers, and sustainers." OK, great, but... a.) these jobs will only be "uniquely human" until AI becomes self-generating and sustaining. [1] b.) as these jobs emerge, surely they don't expect all of the millions of displaced laborers, truck drivers for example, to find work in these roles. AI is increasing overall efficienc…

> a base living wage without work does not a happy life make

Makework doesn't cut it, though. You can hire a guy to dig a hole and another guy to fill it in, but both of them will be utterly demoralized. And I have trouble believing garbagemen wouldn't be happier staying home even though they know they're doing necessary work.

Re: Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

#53

Post by ooqr »

pikzen wrote: post #27
ooqr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be realistic about point a). And for point b), it's always truck drivers brought up in these instances. Yes, think of the poor truck drivers. I'm sure they love doing a dull job. If a job is replaceable by machines, it's not worth doing. I get the worry that people will be without livelihood, but it's not as if this world has a shortage of work to be done. If we had no more work to do, sure, bring on the UBI. But we…

>Yes, think of the poor truck drivers. I'm sure they love doing a dull job. Yes, they're clearly doing that for the personal achievement that it brings them and not for, maybe, money. That tiny thing we all kind of need. Jesus Christ, the arrogance of HN sometimes.

You're very much missing the point. There are lots of jobs that used to exist that are no longer viable. This happens. The fact that people are unemployed is a separate issue from any given job no longer being viable. And yet there's plenty of work that needs doing.

Re: Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

#54

Post by ooqr »

oconnore wrote: post #20
ooqr wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be realistic about point a). And for point b), it's always truck drivers brought up in these instances. Yes, think of the poor truck drivers. I'm sure they love doing a dull job. If a job is replaceable by machines, it's not worth doing. I get the worry that people will be without livelihood, but it's not as if this world has a shortage of work to be done. If we had no more work to do, sure, bring on the UBI. But we…

All of those jobs you mentioned are not economic, they are public works -- and there is no funding for them, so at best those are volunteer efforts, not something to put food on the table. You're right, in theory we could have a system where we put truck drivers to work doing great stuff. Losing lots of jobs could be amazing if we had the services and programs that made our society compatible with that. But we don't,…

That's exactly what I'd like to see. The problem with UBI is it's not that.

There's room for more than one social program in dire circumstances, but ideally we should have a social structure which incentivizes doing good. Help those who can't help others, and encourage those who can to do so.

Re: Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

#55

Post by gaius »

mLuby wrote: post #43
bbctol wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clean litter out of forests... for free? Visit the sick... for free? People don't like being truck drivers because they like driving trucks, they like being truck drivers because they like eating, sleeping, and raising their families. The unemployment rate is currently above 0, despite their being no "shortage of work to be done," because plenty of work that could be done doesn't have anyone paying in exchange for th…

Don't assume you know why truck drivers do what they do…

Indeed. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/28/opinion/truck-driving-is-...

Re: Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

#56

Post by gaius »

suyash wrote: post #28
camikazeg wrote: post #12

This is why as I look to the future that my two year old son will inherit as an adult, I'm going to make sure that he has a really solid grasp of philosophy. The cutting edge of today's technology and science are all digging deeply into age old philosophical questions that haven't seemed so relevant until recently. Artificial Intelligence and Virtual Reality in particular are going to beg us to answer questions about…

Philosophy is a fundamental education in any science.

Philosophy jobs are among the first to go https://www.illinoispolicy.org/mcdonalds-counters-fight-for-... #lol

Re: Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

#57

Post by oconnore »

ooqr wrote: post #54
oconnore wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All of those jobs you mentioned are not economic, they are public works -- and there is no funding for them, so at best those are volunteer efforts, not something to put food on the table. You're right, in theory we could have a system where we put truck drivers to work doing great stuff. Losing lots of jobs could be amazing if we had the services and programs that made our society compatible with that. But we don't,…

That's exactly what I'd like to see. The problem with UBI is it's not that. There's room for more than one social program in dire circumstances, but ideally we should have a social structure which incentivizes doing good. Help those who can't help others, and encourage those who can to do so.

I'd like that too, but I think at this point, tactically, we need to come together on "we need some social programs, period", and not bicker so much about what that looks like on the first iteration -- there is always a second iteration to be had.

Re: Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

#58

Post by gnaritas »

ooqr wrote: post #49
gnaritas wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're rather missing the point; AI will create a shortage of work to do. The alternatives you mention aren't things that pay a living wage so yes, people will be without livelihoods and something akin to UBI will be necessary.

I'm just saying they should still have something to do. There's plenty that needs to be done.

It's not about having something to do, hobbies don't put food on the table, or provide a table, or a roof to go over it. Our current economic system has no answers for a world where labor isn't valued because it's all based on capital and wage labor. You think we're talking about people being bored or something?

Real AI would create mass unemployment, 50% or more of the population unable to find someone to pay them enough to live on because robots will be doing all the jobs they're capable of. How are these people going to survive? That's the issue being discussed.

Re: Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

#59

Post by gnaritas »

ooqr wrote: post #50
bbctol wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clean litter out of forests... for free? Visit the sick... for free? People don't like being truck drivers because they like driving trucks, they like being truck drivers because they like eating, sleeping, and raising their families. The unemployment rate is currently above 0, despite their being no "shortage of work to be done," because plenty of work that could be done doesn't have anyone paying in exchange for th…

You're missing the point. There's room for social programs to get these things done, but UBI for nothing isn't a good idea.

No, he's not, you are. The social programs required to get those things done aren't going to come soon enough due to the cultural rejection of this kind of socialism in America. You're glossing over the hard part, as if "just pass a social program" was an easy thing to do.

UBI has to be worked out "before" these become big problems, not after; now is the time.

Re: Jobs That Artificial Intelligence Will Create

#60

Post by ooqr »

oconnore wrote: post #57
ooqr wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's exactly what I'd like to see. The problem with UBI is it's not that. There's room for more than one social program in dire circumstances, but ideally we should have a social structure which incentivizes doing good. Help those who can't help others, and encourage those who can to do so.

I'd like that too, but I think at this point, tactically, we need to come together on "we need some social programs, period", and not bicker so much about what that looks like on the first iteration -- there is always a second iteration to be had.

Finally someone who sways me. I agree.

I do advocate at least modicum of empiricism and caution, an approach of testing ideas on city level before country.

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