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Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

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Re: Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

#51

Post by undersuit »

rarlsatan wrote: post #14
undersuit wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been increasing evidence that high cholesterol is a symptom of cardiovascular disease, not the cause. Editing because lots of people want sources. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4513492/ http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/panel-suggests-stop-warni... http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherosclerosis#Accelerated_gr... This is a group I was unaware of until p…

There's not much of a correlation. I think only half of the cases of cardiovascular disease have elevated LDL cholesterol. It's always more complicated than simply having elevated cholesterol; it's overall diet, exercise, and plain old genetics that have the largest effect.

Yes, and I'm not advocating that you should inject LDL Cholesterol everyday, just saying the science may have unfairly focused on one variable.

Re: Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

#52

Post by pm90 »

KekDemaga wrote: post #45
pm90 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please refrain from Ad hominems like this. Depending on where you are from, I can probably find a similarly unpleasant public health characteristic, but does it really get anywhere in the argument? Besides, they actually don't. Its one of the most progressive states in India with 100% literacy etc.

I'm just pointing out that "well India has done it for a long time so it must be good" is a logical fallacy as not all practices engaged in there will positively effect health. No offense intended.

OK, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt.

Your assertion is meaningless because "well India has done it for a long time so it must be good" is not being said for the social practice of open defecation but for the specific effect of coconut oil on the health and longevity of a large number of human beings.

Re: Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

#53

Post by justhamade »

"This finding is inconsistent with the cholesterol hypothesis (ie, that cholesterol, particularly LDL-C, is inherently atherogenic). Since elderly people with high LDL-C live as long or longer than those with low LDL-C, our analysis provides reason to question the validity of the cholesterol hypothesis."

http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401.full

"We might also point out that the vast area in the middle is shared by both those with and without heart disease. In fact, the solid line represents about seven times as many people as the dotted line. That means that the vast majority of people who developed heart disease developed it with cholesterol levels similar to those of seven times as many people who remained free of heart disease."

https://chrismasterjohnphd.com/2011/03/14/genes-ldl-choleste...

Re: Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

#54

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

I pretty much take the stance that any bit of news that says "don't eat this thing", without also saying "do eat these things instead" is a completely worthless energisation of pixels.

From the article: "While the AHA warns against it, people who cut saturated fat out of their diet might not necessarily lower their heart disease risk, a 2015 BMJ review suggested. That's because some people fill the void with sugar, white flour and empty calories."

So this bit of news translates to saying precisely "blah blah blah blah, you're all going to get heart disease. We don't know how to prevent or treat it".

But we do know the risk factors, so we should do those things that reduce or eliminate the risks: Eat food, but not too much, mostly plants. Fast regularly. Exercise, but not too much. Relaxy. Practice diaphragmatic breathing exercises. Get plenty of rest, and ensure you sleep properly. Avoid those things you find stressful. Have good relationships with your family. Get a dog and love it. Stop eating high carb foods all the freaking time. There is no safe level of alcohol consumption.

I think that roughly covers most of the risk factors for heart disease.

You will still die, something will snuff you out eventually.

Edit: fixed a word

Re: Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

#55

Post by pm90 »

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #54

I pretty much take the stance that any bit of news that says "don't eat this thing", without also saying "do eat these things instead" is a completely worthless energisation of pixels. From the article: "While the AHA warns against it, people who cut saturated fat out of their diet might not necessarily lower their heart disease risk, a 2015 BMJ review suggested. That's because some people fill the void with sugar, w…

> You will still die, something will snuff you out eventually.

God someone please explain this to some of my friends who have a minor panic attack if they accidentally eat GMO food. Like one meal will reduce their lives by half.

Re: Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

#56

Post by KekDemaga »

pm90 wrote: post #52
KekDemaga wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just pointing out that "well India has done it for a long time so it must be good" is a logical fallacy as not all practices engaged in there will positively effect health. No offense intended.

OK, I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt. Your assertion is meaningless because "well India has done it for a long time so it must be good" is not being said for the social practice of open defecation but for the specific effect of coconut oil on the health and longevity of a large number of human beings.

>the specific effect of coconut oil on the health and longevity of a large number of human beings.

US life expectancy is a full decade ahead of India, it seems the article may be accurate by those numbers. Do you have any evidence to counter it?

Re: Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

#57

Post by [deleted] »

pm90 wrote: post #55
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #54

I pretty much take the stance that any bit of news that says "don't eat this thing", without also saying "do eat these things instead" is a completely worthless energisation of pixels. From the article: "While the AHA warns against it, people who cut saturated fat out of their diet might not necessarily lower their heart disease risk, a 2015 BMJ review suggested. That's because some people fill the void with sugar, w…

> You will still die, something will snuff you out eventually. God someone please explain this to some of my friends who have a minor panic attack if they accidentally eat GMO food. Like one meal will reduce their lives by half.

[deleted]

Re: Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

#58

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

Capt-RogerOver wrote: post #15
undersuit wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been increasing evidence that high cholesterol is a symptom of cardiovascular disease, not the cause. Editing because lots of people want sources. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4513492/ http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/panel-suggests-stop-warni... http://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/6/e010401 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atherosclerosis#Accelerated_gr... This is a group I was unaware of until p…

Can you link of that evidence? In form of scientific studies (quality ones)? This is not a general "you can't prove your point, you don't have science". I'm actually interested. I have been looking for hard science in this area and have seen none that would back up your claims.

http://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2017/05/18/now...

The linked paper goes into more detail, of course. And this is only one drug, but there are quite a few other failures of similar type, though less dramatic, discussed in the "Cardiovascular Disease" section of his blog. He always links the original papers, but they're often paywalled or highly technical.

Re: Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

#59

Post by TheSpiceIsLife »

pm90 wrote: post #55
TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #54

I pretty much take the stance that any bit of news that says "don't eat this thing", without also saying "do eat these things instead" is a completely worthless energisation of pixels. From the article: "While the AHA warns against it, people who cut saturated fat out of their diet might not necessarily lower their heart disease risk, a 2015 BMJ review suggested. That's because some people fill the void with sugar, w…

> You will still die, something will snuff you out eventually. God someone please explain this to some of my friends who have a minor panic attack if they accidentally eat GMO food. Like one meal will reduce their lives by half.

What I say to people who bang on about pesticides and GMO:

The problem isn't that people are eating too many vegetables sprayed with pesticides.

The problem is that people aren't eating any vegetables.

That's not entirely fair, the green grocers and supermarkets sell a lot of vegetables. But it is a fair description of what I see my colleagues eat.

Also, I don't live in a major city, so my organic grocer options are limited to precisely one. I should go there more often.

Re: Coconut oil isn't healthy and it's never been healthy

#60

Post by drewrv »

zcdziura wrote: post #32
sr2 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it expensive?

I've found that avocado oil is really expensive. I've only been able to find it at my local Whole Foods. Haven't checked Trader Joe's, though I'd wager that if they did have it, it'd be a bit less expensive than WF.

Check your local Costco, they had some last time I was in. I forgot what it cost but I imagine it's a lot cheaper than Whole Foods.
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