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America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

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Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#91

Post by ss248 »

jacquesm wrote: post #63
thinkfurther wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once spent a night in the home of an elderly very poor couple on Tenerife, because they offered some sort of service where the husband would fetch people from the ferry, and bring them to the airport the next day. They were so kind. He was near mentally challenged, a super sweet guy working as a garbage man there, so they could just barely afford it. They lived there because she had horrible arthritis and the clima…

> If I could make one invention, it would be something that swaps the brains of humans around every 5 years, completely randomly. People would sober up rather quickly I'm sure. A variation on that is that the world where you have no control over who you will be in it is the world that you should strive to create.

This is called "Veil of ignorance". [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veil_of_ignorance

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#92

Post by anovikov »

awinder wrote: post #33
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're both talking in extremes. There is a lot of inherited wealth in the developed world [1]. There is also a relationship between "marshmallow test" impulsiveness and peoples' tendency to squander the opportunities their life presents them [2]. The relative balance between these factors is debatable. Their presence is more difficult to dismiss. [1] https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-08-23/how-to-st... [2…

35-45% of wealth as a raw figure is inherited, if you consider wealth ownership by the top 1%, that is a hell of an advantaged start. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/social-mobility-memos/2015/01...

But it also means that, outside of top 1%, wealth (as in: assets, vs income) is totally unimportant.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#93

Post by BEEdwards »

KekDemaga wrote: post #58
coldtea wrote: post #48

The decline of the middle class and the huge explosion of the riches of the rich class will ensure that rich and poor in 50 and 100 years look and live like different species... Slum dwellers and "city trash" on one hand, and 150 year old clean shaven organic vegan genetically modified uberlords on the other. Warlocks vs Elois all over again...

A theory postulated without evidence: Considering throughout history power and wealth inequality was in many ways much worse (monarchies, despotism, no voting rights without land etc) I wonder if the current distribution is simply an artifact of genetic changes that have already occurred. Perhaps the slum dwellers of yesteryear adapted to those conditions and now in some way subconsciously seek them out.

Evidence right here.

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2017/beyond-bls/income-and-heal...

They note that the average age of individuals in the middle- and high-income groups has increased since the 1976–80 period, while the average age of those in the low-income group has decreased. Ultimately, individuals from families with top incomes overwhelming report being in good health. Indeed, individuals in this group were more than twice as likely to report being in very good or excellent health than individuals in the bottom group.

If that isn't leading to the scenario described I don't know what you think it's leading to, but it can't be good.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#94

Post by dpark »

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #74

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recen…

> It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country.

This surprised me, too, the first time I went. Seeing 12 year olds smoking in public spaces was really, really bizarre. The only logical conclusion is that the German government and/or populace simply doesn't care about reducing cigarette usage.

> A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%.

What are "coloureds" in this context? Typically blacks would be categorized as "colored".

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#95

Post by torrent-of-ions »

dpark wrote: post #94
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #74

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recen…

> It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. This surprised me, too, the first time I went. Seeing 12 year olds smoking in public spaces was really, really bizarre. The only logical conclusion is that the German government and/or populace simply doesn't care about reducing ci…

Coloured, not colored: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#96

Post by LanceH »

quantdev wrote: post #89
Pxtl wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention self-medicating. Cigarettes are expensive but they're cheaper than dealing with mental health issues for the uninsured.

Exactly. Nicotine has mental health benefits (e.g., schizophrenia ) and is a nootropic, stimulant, and feel-good drug. By smoking, the poor are trading years in the future for pleasantness now. Calling them stupid or irrational just makes too many assumptions about their opportunities, situations, and goals.

"the poor are trading years in the future for pleasantness now"

This also describes how a lot of people are poor.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#97

Post by [deleted] »

dpark wrote: post #94
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #74

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recen…

> It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. This surprised me, too, the first time I went. Seeing 12 year olds smoking in public spaces was really, really bizarre. The only logical conclusion is that the German government and/or populace simply doesn't care about reducing ci…

[deleted]

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#98

Post by cwal37 »

dpark wrote: post #94
torrent-of-ions wrote: post #74

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recen…

> It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. This surprised me, too, the first time I went. Seeing 12 year olds smoking in public spaces was really, really bizarre. The only logical conclusion is that the German government and/or populace simply doesn't care about reducing ci…

South Africa has some very specific definitions[1] for this type of thing.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coloureds

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#99

Post by metaphorm »

ackfoo wrote: post #11

In the documentary, "A Billion Lives", the former spokesman for Winston says he was told by tobacco executives (who did not smoke) that smoking is for "the poor, the black, the young, and the stupid".

would add to that, perhaps, "and for foreigners". Tobacco sales in developing countries are huge. China alone keeps them in so much profit that almost don't care what happens in America.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#100

Post by throwanem »

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #74

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recen…

> A recent study shows that the overall rate in both whites and blacks is about 15%, while in coloureds it is 40%.

Worth knowing that "colored" is a loaded term in American vernacular, and may provoke strongly negative responses depending on context - I know that's not how you're using it, but many would not, and might take it amiss therefore. "Black" is a denotative equivalent lacking the same connotations, and what I'd recommend using instead in discourse with predominantly American interlocutors.

To your point, I gather there's a class divide along racial lines in South Africa, just as (albeit more sharply defined than) in the US, and would wonder whether that's more where the correlation lies. I think it must be here - that's my observation, at least, anecdotal though it be.

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