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America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

washingtonpost.com

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Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#81

Post by pg314 »

anovikov wrote: post #68
donatj wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There have been studies and the vast majority of millionaires in the United States are still self made, whereas Europe is largely old money.

That is true only for UK. Simply because in rest of EU there is no way to be 'old money' due to world wars and/or Communism where old money lost everything.

That is wrong. E.g. one of the richest families in Belgium is the de Spoelberch family. They owned the brewery Artois, which through various acquisitions and mergers turned into ABInBev. Together with the de Mévius and Vandamme families, they were estimated to be worth about 49 billion Euros in 2015 [1]. Another example in that list is the Janssen family (Solvay and UCB) whose fortune goes back a long way.

[1] http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws.english/News/1.2362216#

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#82

Post by Pxtl »

coldtea wrote: post #48

The decline of the middle class and the huge explosion of the riches of the rich class will ensure that rich and poor in 50 and 100 years look and live like different species... Slum dwellers and "city trash" on one hand, and 150 year old clean shaven organic vegan genetically modified uberlords on the other. Warlocks vs Elois all over again...

Except that wealth is consolidating into the cities where you can't hide from poverty within gated communities.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#83

Post by Overtonwindow »

I think cigarettes share something in common with the meth epidemic in rural America, and I'm not talking addiction: When you don't have a job or you're seriously underemployed, no money, no hope, no opportunities for upward mobility, you look at things almost as a "why not?" issue. Anything to take the edge off of life, make things a little different. It gets compounded by the addictive nature of cigarettes and meth and other drugs.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#84

Post by Cyph0n »

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #74

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recen…

Regarding your last point, how do you know that it's not also a class divide? I wouldn't be surprised if South African blacks were more impoverished overall.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#85

Post by Overtonwindow »

darkerside wrote: post #29

The smoking cessation class teacher they referenced in the article really made me cringe. She seems like a very positive person, but her ideas about how to quit smoking just seem so very misdirected. I wonder if she has smoked in the past and quit herself?

She's not relating to the people she's trying to help. It's like a wealthy person trying to reason with a poor person.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#86

Post by Overtonwindow »

gruturo wrote: post #2

This, if correctly publicized, would be the best motivation in getting huge amounts of people to stop. Think of a slogan like "Only the poor still smoke" or "it's what losers do" and how it would impact people. Suddenly you'd be embarrassed of being seen smoking.

I don't think so. You're talking about a class of people who have been beaten up so much by society for being poor, that I think most will look at that sign and go "yeah no shit" and light up again. Followed by a few more choice words at you and the sign.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#87

Post by KekDemaga »

endorphone wrote: post #45
anovikov wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be missing something on a larger scale, but that is definitely true about all poor people i know (for almost all of them, i see an easy way how they can quit poverty in a few years, apart from a couple very sad examples), and every rich person i know, too (while again, it may be just my perspective: i don't come from a rich family so i don't know anyone who was born rich). It doesn't work as easy for older poor…

You may be mistaking cause and effect. Many poor people have grown up with such a dire outlook that instant gratification is all that's essentially worthwhile. but it is only a result of their mistakes in younger age This is just uncharitable Ayn Rand style sophistry. Environment and simple luck has a fantastically large multiplier on one's odds of being poor or not.

Luck is a factor but often I have met people (I grew up poor) whom don't play the odds in a rational way. For example a lottery ticket has a very low chance of paying off and yet many poor people play, those same people can't find the time or resources to submit a healthy number of resumes or job applications each week even though the odds of finding a better paying job (and one that can potentially lead to an even better paying job in a few years) is statistically speaking vastly more likely. My point being its luck to pick the correct number in a game of roulette but its up to you how many times you attempt to spin the wheel.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#88

Post by drivebyops »

torrent-of-ions wrote: post #74

One of the things that surprised me in Germany was the extremely high smoking rate. Apparently the adult smoking rate is between 40-45%. My experience was that it is by no means limited to poor people either. It was really surprising to me to see a country which presents itself as a modern, progressive force in the world having cigarette vending machines on almost every street in the country. To contrast, I was recen…

It's about what government can do to promote against smoking. Anti smoking ads, anti smoking packaging laws, school exercises, etc about smoking over the years in Australia have led to a rapid decrease in smokers over there.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#89

Post by quantdev »

Pxtl wrote: post #80
protonfish wrote: post #77

There are some lovely comments about here about how the poor are stupid, they deserve it, etc. While discussing this, we should also consider that in situations where there is very little to lose (e.g. going to die soon anyhow, little chance of a successful life) risky behaviors make more strategic sense than if the subject had the promise of better opportunities. Also, the pleasures available to the impoverished are…

Not to mention self-medicating. Cigarettes are expensive but they're cheaper than dealing with mental health issues for the uninsured.

Exactly. Nicotine has mental health benefits (e.g., schizophrenia ) and is a nootropic, stimulant, and feel-good drug. By smoking, the poor are trading years in the future for pleasantness now. Calling them stupid or irrational just makes too many assumptions about their opportunities, situations, and goals.

Re: America’s new tobacco crisis: The rich stopped smoking, the poor didn’t

#90

Post by tnorthcutt »

mordechai9000 wrote: post #75
jacquesm wrote: post #26

That's not just limited to America. I travel a lot, a few years ago, say 15 or so it would be pretty rare to see young people smoke and now somehow it is 'cool' again. I've had the unfortunate experience of delivering a couple of friends to an early grave courtesy of lung cancer, the one thing that seemed to unite them was that they wished they had never started smoking and that once they did they had the strength to…

I just got back to the States from Germany. I was struck by how common smoking seems to be there, but I was glad that it was strictly an outside activity. I smoked when I was younger, but I started as a teenager. (Intelligence test failed.) Once you are addicted, it operates directly on the brain's reward mechanism, much the same way I imagine opiates would. It seems as vital and necessary as breathing. (I am general…

Same thing in Italy and France, in my experience. Quite baffling, really.
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