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I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

theguardian.com

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Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#101

Post by jernfrost »

nether wrote: post #62

This is the worst of racism. The next time a white HNer tells PoC to just turn the other cheek toward racist words, point them to this. Racist attitudes are what enable horrific crimes against blacks, such as these.

But that is exactly what is needed, more enlightenment with real stories like this. People aren't going to realize racism is a real problem if you just scream racist to them. I am white and used to think anti-racists were a bunch of idiots. Only by seeing the prevalence of racism in social media did I start realizing racism was a bigger problem than I had imagined. Reading "Gang leader for a day", was a major eye opener. I think I partly got into that because of the TV series the Wire and the book Freakonomics, which covered the economics and social structure of drug gangs.

But this requires some curiosity and interest in learning which biggest and racists might not have. And frankly it is hard to change people's mind when you are calling them names. People tend not to listen to people they don't like.

We also have to accept that racism goes both ways, it is just that white racism has much more severe consequences for black than the other way around. But I believe it helps maintain white racism to some degree.

I am not American, so I can comment on this as an outsider, and I can very clearly see that many American blacks have a big issue with whites. It is hard to win over whites if they only have bad experiences with blacks and also see no point in educating themselves on the issue.

I am not passing out blame. I am just saying, everybody can contribute to making racism a thing of the past. The ones who have to do the most are whites.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#102

Post by metaphorm »

Toenex wrote: post #88
jernfrost wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Norwegian, so I thought I'd add a few points, which I think greatly influence the difference. 1) Prison guard education is just a few weeks in the US to my knowledge. In Norway it is a 3 year college education, where you learn about mental illness, why people become criminals, how to rehabilitate people etc. The prison guard job in Norway, is by American standards more like a social worker. Guards spend a lot of…

> The world was divided into order and chaos not good and evil. What an interesting point.

incredibly common theme in many pre-Christian myth systems. the good/evil dualism in Christianity is the real aberration, despite its prominence.

one of the more credible hypotheses I've encountered about this phenomenon is that early Christianity adopted many of the positions of Gnostic Manichaeism [0] in order to absorb rival cults.

0- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#103

Post by DugFin »

nandemo wrote: post #76
rayiner wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Constitution plays an outsized role in the U.S. because our voting populace is quite a bit more conservative than our intellectual elite. Our veneration for the Constitution is why, e.g. bans on interracial marriage were eliminated in 1967 with a Supreme Court case instead of in the 1990s when public support for interracial marriage crossed the 50% line. It's why abortion isn't illegal in roughly one third of the…

> instead of in the 1990s when public support for interracial marriage crossed the 50% line. WTF. http://www.gallup.com/poll/163697/approve-marriage-blacks-wh...

Yep. Though as with most things, it's not so much about changing people's minds as it is waiting for the old folks to die:

>Approval of black-white marriage is higher among younger Americans, and lowest among those 65 and older

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#104

Post by Florin_Andrei »

arcticbull wrote: post #7

Honestly, I find the US prison system absolutely horrifying in all respects. As satisfying as it may be for victims to feel the person that did something to them is 'gone' they will eventually be let out, and when they do I want them to be ready to integrate with society. Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much…

> mandatory fill rates in private prison contracts

One day people will look back at this and go "they did WHAT?"

The age of savagery.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#105

Post by jernfrost »

jMyles wrote: post #4

The prison system in general, and solitary confinement (and other forms of emotional torture) in particular is a good enough reason in my opinion to dismantle the state and start over. And it's only one of about 4-5 good reasons right now. Let's do it.

How about reform? Revolutions have never worked. They just lead to more violence.

I think the problem is that there are too many problems in the US and people focus on too many issues rather than focusing on the underlying issues.

Little can happen until the election system is changed. Hence one needs to vote in politicians who will change it. To make that happen more young people and minorities need to vote. That means whatever you think of prison systems, or anything else, getting more people to vote is number one priority.

What people don't get is that, by merely voting you can make a change even if the choices are shit. If politicians knew lots of young and minorities tended to vote, then the politicians would start attempting to take advantage of that and push issues these groups care about.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#106

Post by metaphorm »

FnuGk wrote: post #47
pillowkusis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the challenge is that literally nobody is incentivized to make changes to this system. the situation is really bad for politicians. A politican voting to reform a clearly broken prison system faces tons of risks to their career. Even one wrong vote for improving the prison system will get you labeled as "soft on crime," a dangerous liability for Democrats and nearly a death sentence for Republicans. Every change you…

What is wrong with being "soft on crime"? being though on crime clearly does not work

"tough on crime" is an election campaign strategy more than anything else.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#107

Post by arcticbull »

rhino369 wrote: post #92
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Honestly, I find the US prison system absolutely horrifying in all respects. As satisfying as it may be for victims to feel the person that did something to them is 'gone' they will eventually be let out, and when they do I want them to be ready to integrate with society. Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much…

>Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much derided for their lavish prisons, it's 20%. [2] You can spin this and say that American criminals need to be locked up because they just cause more crime in general. Some see that 76% figure and conclude prison makes them worse. Others see it and think, well these are th…

I'll give you this is a correlation-causation situation. That said, I see little reason to believe that intrinsic to being American is that 1% of the population should be in prison and of them 75% will have another go at it, when both these numbers dwarf the rest of the developed world.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#108

Post by sho »

Toenex wrote: post #88
jernfrost wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am Norwegian, so I thought I'd add a few points, which I think greatly influence the difference. 1) Prison guard education is just a few weeks in the US to my knowledge. In Norway it is a 3 year college education, where you learn about mental illness, why people become criminals, how to rehabilitate people etc. The prison guard job in Norway, is by American standards more like a social worker. Guards spend a lot of…

> The world was divided into order and chaos not good and evil. What an interesting point.

If you are at all interested in this topic, I cannot recommend this lecture series highly enough. I found it absolutely mind-blowing and a stunning revelation. Just give the first episode a shot.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL22J3VaeABQAT-0aSPq-O...

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#109

Post by TheCoelacanth »

Noumenon72 wrote: post #61
CobrastanJorji wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Protecting inmates from a troublesome inmate can be accomplished without putting that inmate in a small, windowless room with no distractions by themselves for 24 hours a day.

But after you've tried environmental design, incentives, threats, guards, and surveillance, then can it be accomplished without the small, windowless room? I'd guess not at a reasonable cost.

Why would a small windowless room ever be necessary? How would an unarmed person harm someone from inside a normal prison cell?

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#110

Post by theoh »

metaphorm wrote: post #102
Toenex wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The world was divided into order and chaos not good and evil. What an interesting point.

incredibly common theme in many pre-Christian myth systems. the good/evil dualism in Christianity is the real aberration, despite its prominence. one of the more credible hypotheses I've encountered about this phenomenon is that early Christianity adopted many of the positions of Gnostic Manichaeism [0] in order to absorb rival cults. 0- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manichaeism

Norbert Wiener (of cybernetics fame) made a distinction between Manichaean devils and Augustinian devils-- essentially between evil as a force opposed to good vs evil as merely a lack of goodness.

Essentially the distinction is between mischief and error.

Edit: see e.g. http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/12/najafi2.php

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