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I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

theguardian.com

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Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#41

Post by bmmayer1 »

hellcow wrote: post #24
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Honestly, I find the US prison system absolutely horrifying in all respects. As satisfying as it may be for victims to feel the person that did something to them is 'gone' they will eventually be let out, and when they do I want them to be ready to integrate with society. Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much…

You're absolutely right. Looking for a solution here, the central problem with the US prison system seems to be the incentive structure. Private prisons are paid based on how many inmates they have. Prisons are therefore incentivized to keep people as long as possible, and ensure that if a convict is ever released, that person commits another crime quickly and winds up back in prison. Instead, what if the state paid…

Fewer than 10% of prisoners are held in private prisons, so how are private prisons the 'central problem' with the US prison system?

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#42

Post by hellcow »

bmmayer1 wrote: post #41
hellcow wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're absolutely right. Looking for a solution here, the central problem with the US prison system seems to be the incentive structure. Private prisons are paid based on how many inmates they have. Prisons are therefore incentivized to keep people as long as possible, and ensure that if a convict is ever released, that person commits another crime quickly and winds up back in prison. Instead, what if the state paid…

Fewer than 10% of prisoners are held in private prisons, so how are private prisons the 'central problem' with the US prison system?

You misunderstood my point. Both government-run and privately owned prisons are paid (or funded) based on how many inmates they have in custody.

I'm suggesting that private prisons could be solution to the problem if we change their incentive structure.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#44

Post by grasshopperpurp »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #37
pillowkusis wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the challenge is that literally nobody is incentivized to make changes to this system. the situation is really bad for politicians. A politican voting to reform a clearly broken prison system faces tons of risks to their career. Even one wrong vote for improving the prison system will get you labeled as "soft on crime," a dangerous liability for Democrats and nearly a death sentence for Republicans. Every change you…

> A politican voting to reform a clearly broken prison system faces tons of risks to their career. Can you say more about this? It sounds like you think that's normal in your community, to think that way. That's not how I hear the people around me talking about prison. I think most of us would support a candidate who talked about rehabilitation. I worry that by trotting out this old meme as if it were an permanent fi…

In my experience, the divide is similar to the War on Drugs. Most young people understand that it was a poor concept, initiated by racists, from the start. Many old people are still tethered to the propaganda of the past, so there are politicians that can just continue that line of thinking. As long as the current generation is in power (Boomers), we won't see much change for the better.

Obv not all Boomers are this way - to be clear, just way too many.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#45

Post by refurb »

hellcow wrote: post #24
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Honestly, I find the US prison system absolutely horrifying in all respects. As satisfying as it may be for victims to feel the person that did something to them is 'gone' they will eventually be let out, and when they do I want them to be ready to integrate with society. Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much…

You're absolutely right. Looking for a solution here, the central problem with the US prison system seems to be the incentive structure. Private prisons are paid based on how many inmates they have. Prisons are therefore incentivized to keep people as long as possible, and ensure that if a convict is ever released, that person commits another crime quickly and winds up back in prison. Instead, what if the state paid…

Private prisons are a minuscule percentage of all incarcerated Americans.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#46

Post by Karunamon »

mallaidh wrote: post #39
nieksand wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you deal with an inmate that murders or rapes another inmate?

If you're implying what I think you are, that's still not justification for torturing the aforementioned person.

Agreed. That's a good reason to keep people physically away from that person, but not a good reason to not allow basic socialization via remote. Even something as simple as IRC chat or video calling would do wonders.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#47

Post by FnuGk »

pillowkusis wrote: post #26
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Honestly, I find the US prison system absolutely horrifying in all respects. As satisfying as it may be for victims to feel the person that did something to them is 'gone' they will eventually be let out, and when they do I want them to be ready to integrate with society. Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much…

the challenge is that literally nobody is incentivized to make changes to this system. the situation is really bad for politicians. A politican voting to reform a clearly broken prison system faces tons of risks to their career. Even one wrong vote for improving the prison system will get you labeled as "soft on crime," a dangerous liability for Democrats and nearly a death sentence for Republicans. Every change you…

What is wrong with being "soft on crime"?

being though on crime clearly does not work

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#48

Post by erikpukinskis »

MrZongle2 wrote: post #34
grasshopperpurp wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Best. Response. Ever. /s

It seemed appropriate, given the inanity of the parent comment. The United States: a human-rights-abusing farce of a country that is such a hellhole that over a million people from other countries legally immigrate to it every year, half that number are estimated to illegally immigrate to it annually, and the country's judicial system takes a stance to prevent its President from stemming the tide of inbound visitors…

I don't see any contradiction there. It can be a place of many human rights abuses and a desirable place to immigrate.

If an immigrant thinks they can avoid the abuses, then it might make sense to come anyway. It also might make sense if they are facing worse abuses back home. But either of those things could be true while still having many U.S. citizens whose rights are being violated.

The truth remains that the U.S. only protects the rights of some groups of its citizens, not all of them, which is contradictory to the brand we project.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#49

Post by RubenSandwich »

spiderfarmer wrote: post #29
arcticbull wrote: post #7

Honestly, I find the US prison system absolutely horrifying in all respects. As satisfying as it may be for victims to feel the person that did something to them is 'gone' they will eventually be let out, and when they do I want them to be ready to integrate with society. Recidivism rates in the US show it is objectively not working, with state prisons leaving inmates to re-offend 76% of the time. [1] In Norway, much…

Add that to the long list of things that needed an overhaul in the US. Education, healthcare, minimum wage, the war on drugs, gun control. All things with that contribute to the enormous prison population in the US that are in dire need of an overhaul. But it will probably never happen because of widespread corruption and anti-intellectualism.

You should add hubris to your list of 'why it won't happen'. America is very proud and very rarely in my life have I seen a proud person admit to wrong, much less change their behavior.

Re: I spent 29 years in solitary confinement (2010)

#50

Post by rayiner »

coldtea wrote: post #10
mnm1 wrote: post #2

If being imprisoned and enslaved isn't cruel and unusual punishment, I don't know what is. The constitution doesn't prohibit shit with its useless words in this case.

I always found the faith in the revered interpretations of some constitutional document written centuries ago, and the respect for the "Founding Fathers" not as historical figures, but as some kind of guiding lights for today, totally bizarro. Even the name "Founding Fathers" and the way it's thrown around seems quite bizarre for a democracy. It's the people, and the will of the people, that should be respected, not…

The Constitution plays an outsized role in the U.S. because our voting populace is quite a bit more conservative than our intellectual elite. Our veneration for the Constitution is why, e.g. bans on interracial marriage were eliminated in 1967 with a Supreme Court case instead of in the 1990s when public support for interracial marriage crossed the 50% line. It's why abortion isn't illegal in roughly one third of the states. It's why schools were desegregated by Supreme Court fiat a decade before the Civil Rights Act was passed.

It's a writ small version of the situation that you see with, e.g. Bangladesh. The voting populace there is very conservative, and despite the constitution creating a secular republic, voters have Islamized the country since then. A few years ago, there was a touchy situation where there was concern an interim military caretaker government would not hand back power to the civilian government once elections were conducted. People like my parents (who immigrated to the U.S. from there) who think secular democracy is really important, kind of supported an undemocratic military intervention that might have the effect of protecting it.

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