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Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

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Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#121

Post by wjoe »

dao- wrote: post #34
mrweasel wrote: post #14

Yeah, the telcos have already found a way out. They simply remove EU roaming from their standard subscriptions and it now becomes an add-on. So if you want to use your phone in a different country during the holidays, you'll need an EU roaming subscription. The politicians once again failed to be sufficient precise in formulating a law that would produce the decided result. They should have added a clause that state…

> Yeah, the telcos have already found a way out What are "the telcos"? I just got an SMS from Vodafone announcing that from now on, I won't pay roaming fees in EU countries.

Same with EE in the UK. I did previously pay for an EU roaming addon which cost £3/day in the EU, they've said that that's removed from the account, and charges in the EU will be the same as at home, no extra charges.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#122

Post by dkersten »

panzer_wyrm wrote: post #62
rdl wrote: post #17

What is the correct European SIM to buy for data/voice/etc. (prepaid)? Presumably best to get one from a country you don't actually visit much, so you're always roaming, and thus don't pay the home to foreign number charges?

Uk three. Uk is the only sane (at least on this topic) country left in the EU in which you could buy a sim card without photo id.

I bought a Lyca mobile SIM in Germany last year, no photo ID. I got a Meteor SIM here in Ireland, also no ID required.

My current operator is Virgin, and that didn't require ID etiher, although since I already had a home internet account with them, that may have been why (no idea if new customers need ID). I did not need ID to setup the original home broadband account though. They obviously have my address and billing details, but they never had any proof that I'm who I saw I am. My previous phone provider was Three Ireland and they didn't require any ID either.

All of these except my Virgin SIM are/were prepaid. It seems that prepaids don't always require ID (and having postpaid/bill phones require ID does make sense).

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#123

Post by netcan »

_miroz wrote: post #38

I'm wondering why the regulation was necessary and why the free market forces didn't bring the prices or roaming down? What are the forces in telecom industry that kept the prices so high (assuming that the prices were higher then necessary)?

There are free markets and then there are free markets.

There are commodity markets with many producers, many consumers and product uniformity. These can be modeled very effectively using economic theories. Barley, pork bellies, silver.

There are more “normal” markets with many (or at least enough) producers & consumers and nonuniform products with sufficient substitution options. Supermarkets, building supplies, spoons, shoes… These tend to be efficient and broadly explainable via economic theories.

Some markets are highly regulated. Some markets are oligopolistic or have an monopolistic component in the “value chain” (e.g. last mile infrastructure). Some are highly financialized (e.g. health insurance markets) or have weird standardisation/compatibility issues. Some have high fixed/marginal cost structures. Lock-in, licensing issues, externalities, inflexible supply side (e.g. housing), property rights aggregation issues (e.g. regional US radio bands), bundling…

The ability of a market to be dynamic, efficient, innovative and all the other emergent properties of a free market is limited by all these things.

Telcom markets have a lot of these issues. That’s why highly interventionist policies have performed well relative to more “free” market setups.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#124

Post by [deleted] »

gmac wrote: post #59
_miroz wrote: post #38

I'm wondering why the regulation was necessary and why the free market forces didn't bring the prices or roaming down? What are the forces in telecom industry that kept the prices so high (assuming that the prices were higher then necessary)?

Because it's a confusopoly[1] and roaming charges (like data overage charges) weren't part of the headline offer, which was generally UNLIMITED calls and texts and a FREE phone when you pay £X per month . Same as 'free' banking in the UK, which is in reality heavily cross-subsidised by the poorest customers paying overdraft penalties. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confusopoly

[deleted]

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#125

Post by vidarh »

blibble wrote: post #8

I never saw why this interference in the free market was needed when it was making progress, and in some circumstances already provided solutions to the problem on Three I've had free roaming for years, at no additional cost, across the EU and a good chunk of the rest of the world http://www.three.co.uk/feel-at-home

Because it has taken them a ridiculously long time. Note that these regulations have been phased in for the last 10 years after the Commission first gave the industry about two years warning that they were unhappy about the situation. In those 10 years, the limits have steadily been dropped, yet most providers have avoid to the last day to drop their rates ahead of the regulation.

These regulations have been reviewed several times, with the intent of seeing if the industry had changed behaviour enough to justify letting the rules expire. Time limits were extended several times. Each time the providers under-delivered on what the Commission was looking for.

In other words: They've had 12 years. They've consistently dragged their feet, because they know that while it is a material issue when getting a subscription for a small portion of frequent travellers, most people do not keep close track of large portion of their yearly cost is down to that vacation (on average) many months ago when it comes time to renew.

Secondly because the EU sees this as a barrier to effective competition between businesses in different member states, and eliminating those barriers is a major portion of the justification for its existence.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#126

Post by rhblake »

panzer_wyrm wrote: post #62
rdl wrote: post #17

What is the correct European SIM to buy for data/voice/etc. (prepaid)? Presumably best to get one from a country you don't actually visit much, so you're always roaming, and thus don't pay the home to foreign number charges?

Uk three. Uk is the only sane (at least on this topic) country left in the EU in which you could buy a sim card without photo id.

French operator Free sells prepaid SIM cards through vending machines in many places. No ID check, totally automated, machine spits out a SIM of your chosen type along with a receipt with necessary info.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#127

Post by vidarh »

hav wrote: post #21
tskaiser wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iirc 3 introduced this service when it was announced that these regulations were underway.

Correct. It's difficult to see if that was causation though, as Three had already had "Feel at home" in 2013 when discussions started in the EU about this legislation.

The first steps towards this happened in 2005, with the first regulations passed in 2007. 2013 is just the last tightening after the providers once again dragged their feet enough to finally get the Commission to accept they wouldn't do it voluntarily.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#128

Post by belorn »

_miroz wrote: post #38

I'm wondering why the regulation was necessary and why the free market forces didn't bring the prices or roaming down? What are the forces in telecom industry that kept the prices so high (assuming that the prices were higher then necessary)?

free market forces is great when the is information symmetry between buyer and seller. In that world no person would ever be surprised when the phone bill is sent.

Now the question is, how many consumers knew roaming prices (for places which they would travel to) when they had the opportunity to compare companies and made the decision to enter into contract with a phone company. If the answer is almost everyone then regulation is completely unnecessary. If the answer is almost no one then competition is basically impossible and the consumer just have to hope that the contract they signed several years ago was a good one and not a exploitive one. Regulations in that case reduces risk to the consumer.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#129

Post by ginko »

blibble wrote: post #46
halloij wrote: post #4

So the cost incurred will be passed on to everyone in higher fees. eg people who never "roam" are going to be subsidising those people that do. A negative move spun as a positive... clever EU, clever.

that's alright, they'll just legislate to prevent price rises too

Competition between providers will fix that one soon enough.

Re: Europe mostly ends mobile roaming fees from today

#130

Post by fwn »

matthewmacleod wrote: post #72
halloij wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phew. That's good to know. As someone who has absolutely no desire to ever need "roaming", it's good to know it won't be forced on people.

Since roaming is zero-cost and has no effect on your existing plan, it seems weird that you would object to it.

This is not how companies behave in a market.

As long as something which was previously part of the profit is cut out, costs will be realigned. This effect is independent from the label used to justify this previous profit.

If it does not end up like this, the companies allocation mechanisms were not working as expected in the first place.

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