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The Hidden Cost of Privatization

ineteconomics.org

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Re: The Hidden Cost of Privatization

#11

Post by Simulacra »

danmaz74 wrote: post #7
Overtonwindow wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a lobbyist in Washington DC and it is appalling The work ethic of federal employees. The governments hands are tied, they can't fire anyone, and if there's no work, they just sit around and do whatever they want. The federal bureaucracy is absolutely bloated, and there's really nothing anyone can do about it. They get amazing pay, amazing benefits, amazing retirement, and if they screw up, there is really nothing…

> They get amazing pay Who gets amazing pay? How much are we talking about? I don't know about the USA, but usually public employees don't earn that much (in exchange for high job security).

Fair point, the pay you can get elsewhere might be higher. I tend to think anything over $60k a year to be pretty good, which a GSA scale employee can get to in just a few years. Pay raises are almost guaranteed unless there is a budget issue, but even then you get it all eventually. They do max out at about $140k, though. The magic is to retire after 20 years, get the pension, and then get another job in the private sector and double dip. That's the real brass ring.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Privatization

#12

Post by maxxxxx »

danmaz74 wrote: post #7
Overtonwindow wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a lobbyist in Washington DC and it is appalling The work ethic of federal employees. The governments hands are tied, they can't fire anyone, and if there's no work, they just sit around and do whatever they want. The federal bureaucracy is absolutely bloated, and there's really nothing anyone can do about it. They get amazing pay, amazing benefits, amazing retirement, and if they screw up, there is really nothing…

> They get amazing pay Who gets amazing pay? How much are we talking about? I don't know about the USA, but usually public employees don't earn that much (in exchange for high job security).

Employees of the big agencies in DC make very good money from what I know.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Privatization

#13

Post by maxxxxx »

Simulacra wrote: post #11
danmaz74 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They get amazing pay Who gets amazing pay? How much are we talking about? I don't know about the USA, but usually public employees don't earn that much (in exchange for high job security).

Fair point, the pay you can get elsewhere might be higher. I tend to think anything over $60k a year to be pretty good, which a GSA scale employee can get to in just a few years. Pay raises are almost guaranteed unless there is a budget issue, but even then you get it all eventually. They do max out at about $140k, though. The magic is to retire after 20 years, get the pension, and then get another job in the private…

And 140k is a lot of money if you factor in a guaranteed pension. You have to make a lot of money to finance this yourself.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Privatization

#14

Post by rainbowmverse »

pizzetta wrote: post #8
yequalsx wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting rid of unions will increase income inequality. Just compare for profit higher education with public higher education. The wages/benefits for workers former very much lag those of the latter. Private prisons pay way less too. But the people at the top get outsized pay. The cost savings to taxpayers are not sufficient to justify this inequity.

Imagine if unions were strong and IT were unionized. How would you imagine the progress we've seen in information technology? The impact on progress should not be discounted as an externality. Imagine if taxicabs or any livery service of any kind had to have a union member associated with it. Would autonomous cars make the same progress (for example, we can have autonomous subways/trains but they have to be "personne…

>> Imagine if unions were strong and IT were unionized. How would you imagine the progress we've seen in information technology?

We are a long way off from being able to say high technology has truly caused progress. Right now, it seems to do more harm than good. People in the tech industry are slowly coming to terms with their impact on the world outside their sphere of awareness, but that newfound conscientiousness hasn't translated into much change.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Privatization

#15

Post by InTempWeTrust »

pizzetta wrote: post #8
yequalsx wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting rid of unions will increase income inequality. Just compare for profit higher education with public higher education. The wages/benefits for workers former very much lag those of the latter. Private prisons pay way less too. But the people at the top get outsized pay. The cost savings to taxpayers are not sufficient to justify this inequity.

Imagine if unions were strong and IT were unionized. How would you imagine the progress we've seen in information technology? The impact on progress should not be discounted as an externality. Imagine if taxicabs or any livery service of any kind had to have a union member associated with it. Would autonomous cars make the same progress (for example, we can have autonomous subways/trains but they have to be "personne…

IT unionized? The Union of Loners.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Privatization

#16

Post by pizzetta »

rainbowmverse wrote: post #14
pizzetta wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if unions were strong and IT were unionized. How would you imagine the progress we've seen in information technology? The impact on progress should not be discounted as an externality. Imagine if taxicabs or any livery service of any kind had to have a union member associated with it. Would autonomous cars make the same progress (for example, we can have autonomous subways/trains but they have to be "personne…

>> Imagine if unions were strong and IT were unionized. How would you imagine the progress we've seen in information technology? We are a long way off from being able to say high technology has truly caused progress. Right now, it seems to do more harm than good. People in the tech industry are slowly coming to terms with their impact on the world outside their sphere of awareness, but that newfound conscientiousness…

I imagine the progress in microprocessors, photolithography, search, education, power generation, drugs discovery, communications, etc., etc., do have a measurable impact on progress of the species.

Imagine if tech were stuck where it was in even 1999. So many things possible today would not be possible (due to cost or unavailability).

Re: The Hidden Cost of Privatization

#17

Post by yequalsx »

pizzetta wrote: post #8
yequalsx wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Getting rid of unions will increase income inequality. Just compare for profit higher education with public higher education. The wages/benefits for workers former very much lag those of the latter. Private prisons pay way less too. But the people at the top get outsized pay. The cost savings to taxpayers are not sufficient to justify this inequity.

Imagine if unions were strong and IT were unionized. How would you imagine the progress we've seen in information technology? The impact on progress should not be discounted as an externality. Imagine if taxicabs or any livery service of any kind had to have a union member associated with it. Would autonomous cars make the same progress (for example, we can have autonomous subways/trains but they have to be "personne…

I think most groundbreaking research is government sponsored. A lot of it at universities which are unionized.

Instead of unions substitute the phrase "sane worker protections, pay, and rights". The U.S. is badly in need of better labor laws and much greater enforcement of those laws.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Privatization

#18

Post by pizzetta »

yequalsx wrote: post #17
pizzetta wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if unions were strong and IT were unionized. How would you imagine the progress we've seen in information technology? The impact on progress should not be discounted as an externality. Imagine if taxicabs or any livery service of any kind had to have a union member associated with it. Would autonomous cars make the same progress (for example, we can have autonomous subways/trains but they have to be "personne…

I think most groundbreaking research is government sponsored. A lot of it at universities which are unionized. Instead of unions substitute the phrase "sane worker protections, pay, and rights". The U.S. is badly in need of better labor laws and much greater enforcement of those laws.

>I think most groundbreaking research is government sponsored

And I think many of the researchers are the oft exploited grad students and the like who are not typically bound by union agreements --some staff and contractors may be unionized, but not most of the people doing the drudgery work that goes into research, at least in the US.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Privatization

#19

Post by rainbowmverse »

pizzetta wrote: post #16
rainbowmverse wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Imagine if unions were strong and IT were unionized. How would you imagine the progress we've seen in information technology? We are a long way off from being able to say high technology has truly caused progress. Right now, it seems to do more harm than good. People in the tech industry are slowly coming to terms with their impact on the world outside their sphere of awareness, but that newfound conscientiousness…

I imagine the progress in microprocessors, photolithography, search, education, power generation, drugs discovery, communications, etc., etc., do have a measurable impact on progress of the species. Imagine if tech were stuck where it was in even 1999. So many things possible today would not be possible (due to cost or unavailability).

These things are good, but have so far been applied carelessly and unevenly. This is where my comment about conscientiousness comes in.

We need to start asking "For what purpose?" and "Who could this hurt?" more often. Packing more transistors into a CPU and working magic with algorithms to squeeze more out of them is not so good if it goes into a machine intended for surveillance and violating privacy, or to wipe out a million jobs because it can all be done by a few people now.

We can keep packing the transistors and working the magic, but it's going to keep doing a lot of damage if the people responsible don't think about the human impact.

Re: The Hidden Cost of Privatization

#20

Post by pizzetta »

rainbowmverse wrote: post #19
pizzetta wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I imagine the progress in microprocessors, photolithography, search, education, power generation, drugs discovery, communications, etc., etc., do have a measurable impact on progress of the species. Imagine if tech were stuck where it was in even 1999. So many things possible today would not be possible (due to cost or unavailability).

These things are good, but have so far been applied carelessly and unevenly. This is where my comment about conscientiousness comes in. We need to start asking "For what purpose?" and "Who could this hurt?" more often. Packing more transistors into a CPU and working magic with algorithms to squeeze more out of them is not so good if it goes into a machine intended for surveillance and violating privacy, or to wipe ou…

I wholeheartedly agree we spend much of our technology on both frivolous stuff and dangerous stuff (things that are detrimental to the wellbeing of people in general) -but the good offsets the negatives, I think.
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