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The future of education is plain text

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Re: The future of education is plain text

#231

Post by emodendroket »

nobodyorother wrote: post #219
emodendroket wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your source claims the spec contradicts previous adapted ISO standards, not that it contradicts itself (which is what I assume you mean by it not being self-consistent). It does, however, raise the issue of bits like legacy compatibility for Word 97 behavior and scripts not being documented.

Well, no, it is self-inconsistent in places [0]. However, as you mention, those are probably minor points compared to how it contradicts existing standards, like the Gregorian calendar [1], date representation, and language codes. 0: http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20070123071154... 1: http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20070123071154...

Those are annoyances and give increased complexity. They are not, as you described earlier, inconsistencies that make the spec impossible to implement.

Re: The future of education is plain text

#232

Post by gkya »

zo1 wrote: post #197
gkya wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it harder to parse than a PDF or a docx?

I'd argue that it's hard to parse because it's so open-ended. E.g. Markdown is only one example of how to structure textual data in plain-text with additional "syntax". Imagine it wasn't decided on Markdown. E.g.: I don't use markdown when making plain-text notes. I make it all hierarchical and indent using "- ". I.e. headings are top-level, sub-headings are indented by one, and so on. Eventually, you realize that al…

Certainly, but once you obey some conventions (generally accepted or your own), it's easy to parse and transform.

Re: The future of education is plain text

#233

Post by posterboy »

emodendroket wrote: post #15
pyre wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you distribute things in Markdown with (e.g.) MathML markup, then the reader can format that nicely for display, with PlainText / Markdown being the distribution format.

I think it really stretches the definition of "plain text" by the time you need a parser.

I don't think it does, as I thought the title refered to the ubiquitous "view source" web tech compared to binary blobs.

Re: The future of education is plain text

#235

Post by aqsalose »

SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #38
krapht wrote: post #2

Nope, because plain-text is incompatible with centuries of mathematical notation.

TeX users would like a word. Of course, that requires learning TeX notation for those reading it without an interpreter.

I've been using LaTeX for about 5 years now. I don't recommend picking up TeX notation for reading maths in plaintext. It's the nicest way to produce nice looking mathematics PDFs or MathJax, if you have a powerful text editor. And after a while, you learn things like "underscore is for subscript" and "^ is for superscript".

But the point is, mathematics written as a plaintext document needs an interpreter, unless you have been writing papers with math notation for some years. But it is still far more cumbersome (and looks ugly) than writing formulas by hand. And that's not exactly plaintext learning material anymore, then, even though the sources are text files (unlike Word documents).

My ideal workflow (the one I dream about) would be a document camera -like setup that parses math I write on a paper (or a blackboard) into LaTeX (or MathML) style format and ~immediately renders it as beautiful document (with MathJax or similar tool). Like Overleaf, but without typing. (And of course then I could open the source file in text editor to make edits.)

Re: The future of education is plain text

#236

Post by analog31 »

gkya wrote: post #173
analog31 wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thought occurs to me about source versus consumption formats. It would seem to me that source code should be the distribution format. That way, the recipient can choose their own preferred consumption format. When I first heard about HTML, described in some magazine article, it was touted as a way to give people a chance to have their own unique readers. For instance, a blind person might want to have their own HTM…

That's nice and all but in a classroom you want to be able to say "open page n". Anything else causes terrible confusion.

That's a good point. I suppose there has to be at least a preferred distribution format that everybody has access to.

Re: The future of education is plain text

#239

Post by hobs »

JohnHammersley wrote: post #195
AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #46

Plaintext certainly seems more attractive the more docs I write. Over the years, with both work and personal projects, I've used every format from: - Notepad - Microsoft Word - PDF - Twiki - Various proprietary WSYWIG that compiles to HTML - JIRA - Raw HTML - Markdown (several flavors) With nearly every kind of migration, there are numerous pain points. The "raw" formats are a nightmare to edit and update, and the co…

If you're interested in adding LaTeX to that list, you might like to try Overleaf [1] -- it's an online collaborative LaTeX editor we built to try to lower the learning curve (I'm one of the founders). It includes a rich text mode for easier collaboration with non-LaTeX users [2], and you can also write in Markdown if you like :) [3]. Feedback always appreciated if you do give it a try, thanks. [1] https://www.overle…

Thank you so much for Overleaf, as a new user, its great!

I really like how easy it is to experiment with the LaTeX formatting (something I wasnt super familiar with) and immediately see the output.

I had someone send me their resume template on overleaf and it was super easy to get a similar product with my personal touch.

The only feedback I would have is it was a little awkward to do folders within folders (this was a few months ago) and I had to ken the "hey put a path separator in the name" before I got it.

Re: The future of education is plain text

#240

Post by ajarmst »

I find anything but plain text irritating when writing (I dislike attempts to merge the creative process of writing with the only peripherally related creative processes of orthography, layout and printing). The WYSIAYG editor "revolution" and the associated explosion of opague untranslatable binary file formats did us all a huge disservice. My students learn fairly quickly that my warning that assignments submitted as MS-Word files will be deleted without comment was not a bluff.
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