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Uber CEO to take leave

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Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#71
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber has 12000 employees; 20 were reprimanded for sexual harassment. That's 0.001%

What percentage do you need it to be to acknowledge sexual harassment is a problem in that company?

How many high level departures do you need to read about to acknowledge Uber is doing something about it?

Maybe if it went all the way to the top, and Travis Kalanick himself stood down for a while, maybe then you'd ease off?

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#72
post #21

I really don't buy the Travis Kalanik hate. Yeah, Uber started out as your typical SV unicorn (bro warts and all). Yeah, Uber's entire business model can be described as "grey-area" at best and its business practices as sometimes exploitative. But this is exactly how you're supposed to run a massively successful startup in its first decade. This is exactly how FB started out. And this follows every rule in the startu…

> But this [grey-area, sometimes exploitative] is exactly how you're supposed to run a massively successful startup in its first decade.

No, no it's not.

> This is exactly how FB started out.

People keep comparing Uber to Facebook. "Facebook acted shitty, therefore acting shitty is part of the recipe for a successful startup."

It's not.

In fact, your comment is evidence of how destructive some of this unethical behavior can be: It can directly influence future founders and give them a pass on their own unethical and shitty behavior. "Facebook did it, so it must be okay." "Uber did it -- it's just part of how startups work."

But it's not.

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#73
post #43
post #21

I really don't buy the Travis Kalanik hate. Yeah, Uber started out as your typical SV unicorn (bro warts and all). Yeah, Uber's entire business model can be described as "grey-area" at best and its business practices as sometimes exploitative. But this is exactly how you're supposed to run a massively successful startup in its first decade. This is exactly how FB started out. And this follows every rule in the startu…

TK has the unfortunate habit of leaving a trail of history of screwing his employees, and that shit stinks, and sticks. You either: Treat your employees well such that they will go to war for you because protecting your interests is as important as protecting themselves and their own interests. OR Be the unbendable, spotless and ruthlessly calculating leader raising a horde of mindless robots. You churn them out and…

Machiavelli outlined the choice in 'The Prince': To be loved to to be feared?

Remember the the conclusion the Italian came to: Fear is more stable, become feared.

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What percentage do you need it to be to acknowledge sexual harassment is a problem in that company?

Why not flip it around a bit: what percentage do you think? Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for Uber or sexual harassment or any nonsense like that. I (seriously) just want to know if you're advocating for giving every company with a > 0.0% harassment rate the Uber treatment.

The rate is a red herring, it's the reaction when it was reported.

Imagine if your local PD reported that they only ignored .01% of 911 calls. Would you find that acceptable?

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#75
post #52
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uber has 12000 employees; 20 were reprimanded for sexual harassment. That's 0.001%

Yeah, and at other companies, they're handled internally with respect and compassion. That's why you don't read about them in Medium posts where the employee repeatedly points to appalling failures within the organization.

Actually, you probably can. It's just that no one cares about "Initech corp" or whatever, while Uber's name alone guarantees headlines.

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#76
post #21

I really don't buy the Travis Kalanik hate. Yeah, Uber started out as your typical SV unicorn (bro warts and all). Yeah, Uber's entire business model can be described as "grey-area" at best and its business practices as sometimes exploitative. But this is exactly how you're supposed to run a massively successful startup in its first decade. This is exactly how FB started out. And this follows every rule in the startu…

While I do think you have a point regarding how the company is run in a general sense like most start-ups should run (at least according to the ethos on HN), you're down playing the sexual harassment and culture issues by an incredible margin.

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#77
post #67

Culture comes from the top and Uber's is pretty rotten. I did an interview there this year and it was the most aggressive questioning I've ever had. Two of 5 interviewers were really in my face while architecting systems; it was bizarre and I almost walked out. Nothing compared to the 'cultural' interview where there gave me an example of them knowingly breaking the law because "they knew they were right" and then as…

That aggressive nature is both the reason they have problems and the reason they have been so successful.

Re: being successful because they have an aggressive internal culture, is that really true?

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#78
post #21

I really don't buy the Travis Kalanik hate. Yeah, Uber started out as your typical SV unicorn (bro warts and all). Yeah, Uber's entire business model can be described as "grey-area" at best and its business practices as sometimes exploitative. But this is exactly how you're supposed to run a massively successful startup in its first decade. This is exactly how FB started out. And this follows every rule in the startu…

> There was literally nothing wrong with the email

There were at least two things wrong with the email, from my perspective as a guy who's been around plenty of benign bro culture.

1. Explicitly mentioning "sex" as opposed to "relationship" or "dating", and talking about it so casually, sets a very aggressive tone. 20-something guys with lots of hormones will definitely hear that tone and push hard for sex during the trip (the implication is that there will be lots of it, and nobody wants to be left out). Females reading this surely know that they'll receive lots of attention and advances during the trip, whether they want it or not – even if you assume that the guys will be asking for consent, it's still uncomfortable for those who want to be professional and avoid work relationships.

2. "Yes, that means that Travis will be celibate on this trip. #CEOLife #FML." Implication there is that there are many people on the team that the Travis wants to sleep with. If you're a female subordinate of the CEO whom he speaks with somewhat flirtily, you can infer that he's thinking "FML, I wish I could sleep with her".

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#79

Culture comes from the top and Uber's is pretty rotten. I did an interview there this year and it was the most aggressive questioning I've ever had. Two of 5 interviewers were really in my face while architecting systems; it was bizarre and I almost walked out. Nothing compared to the 'cultural' interview where there gave me an example of them knowingly breaking the law because "they knew they were right" and then as…

"... the 'cultural' interview where there gave me an example of them knowingly breaking the law because "they knew they were right" and then asked if I had a similar work experience"

Incredible. Isn't this how mafia organizations hire?

I don't know if this interview method would expose Uber to liability under organized crime laws, but maybe it should.

Re: Uber CEO to take leave

#80
post #21

I really don't buy the Travis Kalanik hate. Yeah, Uber started out as your typical SV unicorn (bro warts and all). Yeah, Uber's entire business model can be described as "grey-area" at best and its business practices as sometimes exploitative. But this is exactly how you're supposed to run a massively successful startup in its first decade. This is exactly how FB started out. And this follows every rule in the startu…

People who love iPhone never hesitate to call Jobs a ruthless leader. We as a community are only interested in the benefits while insanely criticising the primary causal factor of it. Same goes with everything abt Travis. He made his mistakes. No cover up in it. But that doesn't mean he's inherently bad or unqualified. Had it been someone else, Taxi industry wouldn't have disrupted. We enjoy the luxury of travelling in Uber or Ola or Lyft which is fundamentally the problem solved by Travis, that's a long forgotten fact. This is again not an excuse for his mistakes but he's been over cut and over punished.
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