Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

Post by pfisch » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 8:40 PM UTC

mistermann wrote: post #122

pfisch wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A conspiracy theory typically involves a pretty large group of people doing something big to deceive a massive group of people. Like a faked moon landing, a large false flag operation like 9/11, or a hillary clinton/democratic party death squad murdering leakers. Has anything like this ever happened in all of history? The whole snowden thing is the best example I can think of but I don't remember actually being surpr…

Just one famous example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods But of course, this will be dismissed, as will any other example. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman Want some more? https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noam+chomsky Spend a few hours there and then come back and tell me the image the US government portrays is highly consistent with its actual reality.

Post by beagle3 » Sun, Jun 11, 2017, 4:58 AM UTC

pfisch wrote: post #140

beagle3 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A conspiracy theory typically involves a pretty large group of people doing something big to deceive a massive group of people. > ... death squad murdering leakers. Two people are enough to conspire. And to claim (as you did, if I understand correctly) that you need a "large group of people" to hire an assassin to take out one person is irrational, and I believe contradicts a lot of well documented court cases invo…

> Two people are enough to conspire. And to claim (as you did, if I understand correctly) that you need a "large group of people" to hire an assassin to take out one person is irrational, and I believe contradicts a lot of well documented court cases involving organized crime. No this coverup would have to include the DC police with his laptop and many others to bury all the other connections that would exist with wi…

Post by pfisch » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 11:02 PM UTC

beagle3 wrote: post #143

pfisch wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Two people are enough to conspire. And to claim (as you did, if I understand correctly) that you need a "large group of people" to hire an assassin to take out one person is irrational, and I believe contradicts a lot of well documented court cases involving organized crime. No this coverup would have to include the DC police with his laptop and many others to bury all the other connections that would exist with wi…

He might not have left anything visible. The police in this case would not have to be in on it, just not very enthusiastic - which they often are.

Post by angusmacphail » Tue, Jun 13, 2017, 11:58 PM UTC

jstrate wrote: post #25

angusmacphail wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The salient point in the Adam Curtis piece is that regardless of their _technical_ capabilities, the organizations are themselves incapable of making use of what signals they may capture. A similar case can easily be made about the US intelligence establishment, for what it's worth.

The assertion the author makes about the revelations of Snowden is incorrect. The author hasn't done their homework. Further, if you'd like to know about the history of the technical ability of spies, and how the information gathered was processed check out the book referenced, written by an actual historian.