Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads • Hacker News Board

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#171

Post by simon83 » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 8:47 PM UTC

jk2323 wrote: post #148

simon83 wrote: post #88

And here I am, living in Germany and getting told that asking for 60,000€ p.a. as a software engineer with 11 years working experience is waaay too much for most companies. Only the big ones like Bosch, Porsche, Daimler (all non-IT companies) and a few other exceptions will pay enough for a sustainable life. At the same time we hear about regular reports about "shortage of skilled professionals" here in Germany, it's…

This is 2800 € net per month. A refugee on welfare would get approximately 400 per adult plus 300 per kid plus rent paid (and free insurance). For a family of four this is 1400 Euro. Let's assume 1000 for rent in a city. This is 2400 so basically the same that you have. For not working. Germany has Syrian refuges that have 4 wifes and 23 kids. You do the math! http://www.rhein-zeitung.de/region/lokales/westerwald_art…

Personally I don't mind at all that the refugees get this money. I'm glad they get some help, I just hope they make something out of it (which is not so easy in a rather unwelcoming society).

I keep hearing people say "they" take away "our" money, which is just a ridiculously tiny amount in the grand scheme of things. You never had the control where the money goes to to begin with. "Your" money could as well be spent to bail out yet another bank, or whatever useless for profit institution humanity has came up with.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#172

Post by sidlls » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 8:48 PM UTC

taurath wrote: post #140

themagician wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the ladder for just about everything outside of specialized medicine and law. There's just not that many people outside of management anywhere with a $250k+ salary. There's plenty of people who make that much, but it's usually through commissions, additional equity, etc.. Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft employ over 500,000 people. I'd be surprised if there are more than 500 engineers with a sala…

Salary no. Total comp can be 100% or more of salary - they pay people in stock.

It's still not equivalent, in my experience.

People on the same rung of the "tech ladder" as those on the rung of the "traditional ladder" are compensated less in total and also frequently in any given dimension (e.g. salary, stock, whatever).

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#173

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 8:49 PM UTC

JBReefer wrote: post #144

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are computers, cars, overseas trips, etc...43.76% cheaper also?

Fully loaded cost of cars absolutely are, when you include parking, tickets, insurance, bump and tap damage, etc. Keeping a car in a megacity is usually around $10k a year, from experience with both it's dramatically cheaper in upstate New York.

I live in LA, and it costs me far less than $10k a year. My insurance is $100 a month on a new entry-level luxury car, but that has more to do with me being out of country for 11 years. Cars do tend to be nicer here than upstate New York (well, upstate defined as being north of westchester county); so a lot of Mercedes CLAs and such. Gas is more expensive maybe, but I guess it depends on how much you drive (I live next to work, so I drive only a few times a month).

I'm always amazed at how cheap parking is in LA, $6 for a day in Santa Monica not that far from the ocean. If this was any European country, it would be much much more. Heck, it is cheaper than even Beijing.

I've done the calculations, and everything except rent is fairly comparable to a third tier American city. Heck, food in LA is much cheaper than say Spokane where my sister lives. So in California, you have taxes, and that's about it. If you think $100K in Rochester is like $200K or even $150K in say NYC, that is a heck of a lot of extra taxes and rent.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#174

Post by simon83 » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:05 PM UTC

mlent wrote: post #150

simon83 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is all true, but the thing is that most of the developers I know are single and have lots of time on their hands. Some of them literally play computer games only in their spare time. I decided I want to have kids and so I have a family now, and I can tell you having even just 1 kid is expensive enough. Me and my wife we both work full time, only to have enough spare money at the end of the month to put aside, ju…

What area of software development are you in?

I'm currently working as a web developer, with a focus on frontend development.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#175

Post by simon83 » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:08 PM UTC

hocuspocus wrote: post #143

simon83 wrote: post #88

And here I am, living in Germany and getting told that asking for 60,000€ p.a. as a software engineer with 11 years working experience is waaay too much for most companies. Only the big ones like Bosch, Porsche, Daimler (all non-IT companies) and a few other exceptions will pay enough for a sustainable life. At the same time we hear about regular reports about "shortage of skilled professionals" here in Germany, it's…

Where in Germany? My company pays around 80k total for lead/principal roles with your experience, in Berlin. And I'm sure you can make quite a bit more in Munich, Stuttgart, Frankfurt, ... Also, keep in mind, while $250k in the Bay area is indeed more than nice, there are quite a few people making half of that if you don't count the monopoly money in their total comp. In many ways you live a better life with 60k in G…

I'm in Stuttgart. My biggest handicap is probably that I never studied anything. As a nerd I totally lost interest in school, and so I started to work rather early instead of studying.

And there is no denying that the quality of life is much better here in Germany than in the US (unless you make shittons of money of course).

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#176

Post by cableshaft » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:12 PM UTC

arkadiyt wrote: post #5

Here's another one that has 3600 salaries: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/1/d/1a1Df6dg2Pby1UoNl...

Yeah, helped confirm what I'd suspected for awhile now. Chicago is garbage for compensation compared to other major cities. It's apparently difficult to break six figures as a senior dev here, that really shouldn't happen.

Dammit, I don't want to leave, but I'm tired of seeing other places get 50-150% higher salaries and bonuses.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#177

Post by mi100hael » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:13 PM UTC

rconti wrote: post #102

GolDDranks wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How strong financial "gradients" there are around the Bay area? Do people try to come up with all kinds of remote work scenarios etc. to be able to earn the same wages without having to pay for living there? How do people who are not software engineers, manage? Are all wages high?

Not really. Some people take their bay area salary and swing it into remote work somewhere else. But most of us like it here and have no desire to move. High cost of living = higher pay. High housing costs = higher expected appreciation. And most people just pay the piper and deal with it. It doesn't seem particularly difficult to afford living here, versus anywhere else I've been. It's just a different world. My sis…

This comment is hilariously "Bay Area."

> The rancher in Wyoming might buy a newer side-by-side for hunting trips after having a few good years.

Right, because everyone outside the Bay Area lives in a double-wide.

> Most people spend most of the money they make and make a vague plan to retire somewhere around 65. So if you're going to spend a decent chunk of what you make, why not do it in the Valley versus anywhere else?

This is a ludicrous strawman. Most employees in technical fields in average American cities have the means to make a concrete retirement plan, build an emergency fund, and live debt-free without going full-Mustache. My first year out of college, I was spending maybe 20% of my income on a 700sqft 1BR apartment with off-street parking in a walkable, safe neighborhood in a clean, well-educated midwestern city. Now I spend 20% of my income on a short, low-rate mortgage that would be several million dollars in the Bay Area.

> For the rest of us, we have hobbies, families, interests outside of work, and uprooting all of it to move to Wyoming to save some money is just as unthinkable as cutting all hobbies and travel and dining out expenses just to sit on the couch every night.

For the rest of us outside the Bay Area, we too have hobbies, families, the option of financial security, and moving to the Bay Area for nice weather and snobs who think the rest of the country lives in trailer parks is just as unthinkable as whatever else it is you think we do in the rest of the country.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#178

Post by RodericDay » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:17 PM UTC

komali2 wrote: post #100

RodericDay wrote: post #47

Pardon my ignorance of the google ecosystem but... how can I download this spreadsheet?

File -> Download As -> {{whatever you want to download as}}

I don't have a menu at all. Other comment worked though, thanks!

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#179

Post by linkregister » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:18 PM UTC

timbuckley wrote: post #161

linkregister wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It looks like App Academy grads vastly out-earn their CS-degreed counterparts. I wonder if that is representative of App Academy. If so, that is impressive.

App Academy is extremely selective (less than 3%). Also there is probably sample bias, since these are all self-reported.

So App Academy is fulfilling the selection process that companies really want?

Sounds like a cheaper way to a $150k salary than spending 4 years at a top CS university or MBA program.

Re: Anonymized list of engineering salaries from bootcamp grads

#180

Post by phamilton » Mon, Jun 12, 2017, 9:21 PM UTC

themagician wrote: post #128

sidlls wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This matches my observations. On the "technical ladder" I'm the equivalent of a Senior Manger or Director (or, less commonly, VP). My pay is definitely less than anybody at those positions in truth, and the tech ladder generally tops off just north of $200k base, as I've seen it. Outliers exist, the plural of anecdote is not data, and similar disclaimers apply.

This is the ladder for just about everything outside of specialized medicine and law. There's just not that many people outside of management anywhere with a $250k+ salary. There's plenty of people who make that much, but it's usually through commissions, additional equity, etc.. Apple, Google, Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft employ over 500,000 people. I'd be surprised if there are more than 500 engineers with a sala…

> I'd be surprised if there are more than 500 engineers with a salary over $250k between them.

You're conflating things. Nobody says everyone has over $250k salary. They do say that Senior Engineers at Google and Facebook make over $250k total compensation.

As someone who has made over $250k total year comp at a big company in the Bay Area, I will tell you there are far more than 500 engineers doing so.