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Hackers Are Hijacking Phone Numbers and Breaking into Email, Bank Accounts

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241–250 of 382 posts

Re: Hackers Are Hijacking Phone Numbers and Breaking into Email, Bank Accounts

#241
post #136

It's insane how much easier it is to transfer a phone number than a domain name. I also find it odd Facebook, and other sites will let you signup solely with a phone number. There's prepaid cell phone providers that recycle phone numbers, etc. Just seems so stupid to rely on a phone number for authentication alone, but two factor I'm okay with since you still need to know the password. Twitter has a developer product…

"There's prepaid cell phone providers that recycle phone numbers, etc. "

This isn't limited to prepaid phone companies or even cell phones. This practice has gone on for years. (I worked at GTE/Verizon around the time of the merger). My understanding is that the bigger issue is that it is fairly easy to run out of phone numbers if we never repeat. If I remember correctly, most hold the number unused for 3-6 month and fewer folks change now since they can port numbers to a new company at times, if the company that owns the number allows for it. (Yes, the phone company at least used to own the number).

Re: Hackers Are Hijacking Phone Numbers and Breaking into Email, Bank Accounts

#242
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real answer is to not use SMS as a 2FA. That was never ever a good idea.

What is better? Authenticator apps/hardware devices?

Most Dutch banks (except for ING, which does still use SMS) use hardware devices that use the chip on your debit card to authenticate. You unlock the chip with your PIN, enter the challenge code supplied by the banking website for the transaction, and the device shows you a one time code you enter in the banking website. This is a decade old technology that works rather well.

Re: Hackers Are Hijacking Phone Numbers and Breaking into Email, Bank Accounts

#243

Security while we all say is super important will never be important until people doing the customer service actually care. When my identity was stolen 20 years ago it was a nightmare involving writing letters to a postbox and getting form letters in return... doing to the police, the banks, and the utilities and being treated like an idiot because I filled out a rental application that someone used to get credit car…

"It's as if all forms of customer service needs to go through a third party."

.. and therein lies opportunity for the tech-preneurs

Re: Hackers Are Hijacking Phone Numbers and Breaking into Email, Bank Accounts

#244
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a far worse example: PayPal only supports SMS based 2FA, or, if you dig through their old website with archive.org, you can find a way to use one of their proprietary 2FA devices. Support for TOTP? HOTP? Nope.

I think that your average dataroom holds stuff with value well in excess of what the average paypal account holds.

The PayPal account itself might not hold much, but most people have their bank account directly linked to PayPal, without any limits.

In my case, PayPal could take every cent from my account before I’d even get a message. And that’s why 2FA is so important.

Re: Hackers Are Hijacking Phone Numbers and Breaking into Email, Bank Accounts

#246
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I one time called a service that I used a randomly generated string for the security questions. After they asked the question I said "oh it's a giant random string of crap, hold on..." The person replied "yeah that's good enough" and started the next step before I even had a chance to find the actual string!

This. I've had the exact same experience with support accepting "a long string of random crap" as an answer. Now I recommend people to use diceware to generate their security answers with actually readable words. ( https://www.rempe.us/diceware/#eff )

No need for diceware - use lines of poetry. They're made for people to memorize and use strange connections between words. Plus they often have odd punctuation.

Re: Hackers Are Hijacking Phone Numbers and Breaking into Email, Bank Accounts

#247
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ACH model is fundamentally insecure: anyone who knows your account number can pull money from it, and the protocol makes no allowance for the bank to check with you first. I don't think choice of bank matters very much. You can manage your risk somewhat by: 1) Using credit and not debit cards for day to day spending. 2) Maintaining your long term wealth in separate accounts at separate institutions and not linkin…

Why they keep that system? In most of Europe you got "normal" banking system where you can give everyone your account number and worse thing they can do is to put some money there. In US it seems #freemarket is putting externalities (security) on the customer.

No, this is a case where hard to change regulations are preventing progress.

Re: Hackers Are Hijacking Phone Numbers and Breaking into Email, Bank Accounts

#248
post #94
post #69

I wish we could kill phone numbers once and for all. It's insecure, device-dependent, carrier-dependent, country-dependent, subject to snooping and censorship, and all of these are recipes for disaster as an authentication scheme, especially in the event that a device gets stolen. Phone calls and text messages should emphatically NEVER be used to verify anything. Conversation with one of my banks the other day: Them:…

While conversation is probably not a good example of anything, I agree with the main statement: phone numbers must die. They are insecure, unremarkable remnants of an outdated system.

Well in many countries you are required to show and submit ID to the provider that ties you to a particular sim/number. While I see this more as a control mechanic than a security measure, it does give some reason as to why organisations tie identity to a phone number. I must assume that the USA does not do this?

Re: Hackers Are Hijacking Phone Numbers and Breaking into Email, Bank Accounts

#249
post #177

5 or 6 years ago, my phone number got ported by someone else without my knowing. My phone suddenly didn't work anymore. I called into AT&T right the way to ask what's going on and they said someone has "took over billing" from my account and AT&T transferred the number over. WTF? I was adamant to get the number back since that's the number I give it out to people. They won't bungle saying it's out of their hand. Fina…

So basically as long as a hacker wouldn't mind paying your phone bill for a month they could easily take over billing of it, then clean your accounts out, then cancel the number.

This is another one of those messy human areas where computer systems are either too strict or not strict enough.

Re: Hackers Are Hijacking Phone Numbers and Breaking into Email, Bank Accounts

#250
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Authenticators are fine but u2f keys are better because they protect against phishing.

Not to mention you lose your Authenticator if you upgrade/lose/break your phone, but U2F keys are (practically) forever.

    adb backup com.google.android.apps.authenticator2
all the codes are stored in the sqlite3 database which you can open with standard command line tools.

there are also more user friendly backup apps such as helium, but adb works quite nicely.

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