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Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

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201–210 of 234 posts

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#201

best outcome I can think of: AMD licenses x86 patents to Qualcomm/MS to make x86 emulator better patent troll proof. In return, Qualcomm and AMD team up for better ARM server based processors. MS can sell more Windows/Windows Sever (sad).

It's a non-transferable license.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#202
post #151
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fine. If you are really into getting the shortest instruction, try "xorl %eax,%eax" then "incl %eax" which is four bytes (31 c0 ff c0).

push $1/pop %eax (6a 01 58) is shorter, but perhaps not the best idea.

Actually, there is no 32-bit pop instruction in x86-64 mode. Your code won't work.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#203
post #59

This marks a distinct shift for Intel. Historically, Intel's IP approach has focused on trade secrets, because they had a huge advantage in manufacturing and implementation techniques that are not easily reverse-engineered. Patent-protecting x86 didn't make much sense during the long period where nobody could make a general-purpose CPU as fast as Intel running native code, much less while emulating x86. As Moore's la…

> Apple's A10 is shockingly close to matching Kaby Lake on performance within a similar power envelope.

Do you have a source for this claim? Not saying it's wrong, I'd just appreciate seeing a real benchmark/power usage test.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the primary reason Windows RT sucked was it's reliance on the horrendously terrible Windows Store? You couldn't even recompile popular apps if you wanted to, you had to port them to the store system. Unless you were MS, then you could grant yourself an exception and let stuff run direct (Office).

You make it sound so evil while the fact is that the store is for a lot more secure and sandboxed apps so you can't just put any kind in the store. The reason why they let their own apps in like office is because they are ok for guaranteeing for their own products while they do not want to discriminate other app developers among themselves on who can and who can't put an unsecure app into the store

In theory. In practise, the store was, and is, full of shit. Junk apps, because MS paid people to push apps out. Junk apps and scams, because MS does no review or policing. Even Netflix had to go to MS 3 times in order for them to block fake Netflix apps. Other companies selling well-known programs have told me they simply cannot get MS to respond.

Search for "Game of Thrones" right now on the Windows Store. Or WinRAR. Microsoft doesn't even verify their "publishers" are actual companies, have valid URLs for the store listing (most of these junk apps just go to "http://"). It's been and remains a joke.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next decade?! That long???

Yes. x86 is dominant for desktops/laptops. ARM is starting to make inroads with Chromebooks and covers the low end. RISC V is starting from scratch, both in terms of available hardware and software support. If RISC V can quickly prove popular in the embedded space then perhaps we'd see a desktop/laptop earlier than in a decade, but it's a competitive market. To give a comparison, MIPS is popular in the embedded space…

but, lowRISC says they are going to crowdfund a SOC this year... let's say it takes them 2 years to have one I can buy, I should be able to have a RISC V based computer that can run linux within 5 years! Am I dreaming?

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#206
post #202
post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

push $1/pop %eax (6a 01 58) is shorter, but perhaps not the best idea.

Actually, there is no 32-bit pop instruction in x86-64 mode. Your code won't work.

You're right: it should be pushq $1/pop %rax (which is also three bytes, although there will be a prefix byte for registers r8 through r15).

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#207
post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> their warning could backfire if it gives Microsoft one more reason to finally walk away from x86 compatibility Emulation is an important part of walking away, no? Microsoft cares about backwards compatibility above anything else.

Microsoft cares about backwards compatibility above anything else. Yes and no. If you're buying a managed service - like Azure HDinsight say - why do you care or even need to know what's under it? The volume buyers of CPUs now are the big cloud operators. If you're buying a tablet and consuming "apps", then why do you care about compatibility with old Windows desktop applications?

>If you're buying a tablet and consuming "apps", then why do you care about compatibility with old Windows desktop applications?

Because you operate some piece of enterprise software that was built in the 90s and is working just fine up until now.

Average end-users (and to a certain degree cloud customers) aren't that picky about backwards compatibility, but enterprise customers certainly are.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be a lot of mingling here of the way things ought to be and the way they are.

Reminds me of a list of "copyright myths" I saw in school. The first nine were, "you think you can do this simple thing, this reasonable thing, or have any freedom whatsoever? SCREW YOU." The tenth claimed it was a myth that copyright levied oppressive burdens on the consumer. Lesson: With any type of intellectual property protection, you can usually just presume it works in the most totally disgusting way imaginable…

Laws operating in a grotesque and unfair way is hardly confined to intellectual property law.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#209
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to be a lot of mingling here of the way things ought to be and the way they are.

there is. i have no idea how things actually are. but laws should not contradict common sense.

But they often do.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#210
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hmmm. So for example, a strength of X86 is that all reads and writes are synchronized by design, guaranteed by hardware. So if two threads call a write instruction, those instructions are guaranteed to happen in the order they were written in. You have no such guarantee on ARM. What's more, Intel has a patent for this. So now, if the same algorithm is implemented in software to emulate X86 platform on ARM, how is tha…

how can it possibly infringe on any kind of patent to "promise that commands are executed in order". maybe thats a difficult problem for hardware to solve. for software, thats just how software works. maple is solving differential equations and that may have at some point been difficult to write software for. if they have a patent for that, then so be it. I start a company that hires professors who are really good at…

Do I smell another Oracle v. Google style bullshit lawsuit?
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