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Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

arstechnica.com

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Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#31

Post by blazespin »

aidenn0 wrote: post #12
natch wrote: post #6

Patents expire after 17 years and x86 is 39 years old, so any of the original patents must have expired twice over already. They no doubt have been filing additional patents over the years. But I'm sure MS and Qualcomm have plenty of their own patents to bargain with. Also their warning could backfire if it gives Microsoft one more reason to finally walk away from x86 compatibility... not that this is likely to happe…

TFA specifically mentions SSE, AVX, TSX, and SGX. All of those have had new features added in the last year or two.

The point is interesting though Microsoft might be working carefully only to emulate older technology. It's not like they really have to support x86 as well as they support it on the x86 version of the OS. In fact they can get to market faster by not providing deep emulation.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#32

Post by wyldfire »

nerpderp83 wrote: post #3

Well, since x86 is a monopoly ... Intel oughta go easy on this one.

Intel would argue (semi-sanely) that there's no monopoly on CPUs. You can make your own mips, arm, it even Risc-V CPUs.

Also that they cross license x86 with competitors.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#34

Post by throwaway2048 »

blazespin wrote: post #28
amorphid wrote: post #26

Attorneys on both sides must be excited on some level about the potential number of billable hours it'd take to litigate a case like this. Reminds me of a something an entrepreneurship professor told me... If there's one lawyer in town, they drive a Chevrolet. If there are two lawyers in town, they both drive Cadillacs.

To be fair Intel has done a lot of work to make the x86 as great as possible. Patent lawsuits are awful. I'm not sure just copying someone's technology and emulating it without paying a license fee is all that great either. My guess is this is all just negotiation from Microsoft's point of view and they are just trying to get Intel to license the ability to emulate x86. Another possibility is this is a way to get Int…

I don't see why Intel would ever do that, for any amount of money that Microsoft would conceivably pay.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#36

Post by faragon »

Intel will not threat Microsoft, not even indirectly, in my opinion. Rationale: once Apple starts shipping desktops and laptops with ARM chips, the only safe port for the expensive x86 chips would be Microsoft (desktop and server market) and big iron on Linux/Unix/Hypervisors.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#37

Post by sitkack »

aidenn0 wrote: post #12
natch wrote: post #6

Patents expire after 17 years and x86 is 39 years old, so any of the original patents must have expired twice over already. They no doubt have been filing additional patents over the years. But I'm sure MS and Qualcomm have plenty of their own patents to bargain with. Also their warning could backfire if it gives Microsoft one more reason to finally walk away from x86 compatibility... not that this is likely to happe…

TFA specifically mentions SSE, AVX, TSX, and SGX. All of those have had new features added in the last year or two.

Intel implements a thing, say SSE and AVX which were pioneered by Cray 20+ years earlier. So arguably, they took out of patent protection technology and applied it to X86. This is exactly how the patent system was designed to work.

I would argue that what they don't get is a defacto monopoly on the use of vector instructions for X86. Even that specific encoding. Because it is now an issue of compatibility and interoperability. The history of closing an instruction set from the patenting of a self few instructions is atrocious. Millions of entities have expressed solutions to their problems in X86, having to pay a tax to Intel in-perpetuity because of that is bullshit.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#38

Post by blazespin »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #34
blazespin wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair Intel has done a lot of work to make the x86 as great as possible. Patent lawsuits are awful. I'm not sure just copying someone's technology and emulating it without paying a license fee is all that great either. My guess is this is all just negotiation from Microsoft's point of view and they are just trying to get Intel to license the ability to emulate x86. Another possibility is this is a way to get Int…

I don't see why Intel would ever do that, for any amount of money that Microsoft would conceivably pay.

Well there are so many boundary conditions here . As noted below it's possible that Microsoft could emulate only older technology that isn't covered by patent. Or emulate x86 technology which has weak patent protection and then use some of their own patents to sue Intel into agreeing to license.

There are so many strategies and tactics and Battle maneuvers here that it's difficult to say in just one simple hacker news posting what's going to happen.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#39

Post by mtgx »

So Intel is so scared of little ol' ARM (compare their revenues) that it's willing to use patents to take it out of the PC market, rather than compete on technical grounds?

Okay, got it. I'll make sure to account for that in my next CPU/device purchase.

Re: Intel fires warning shots at Microsoft, says x86 emulation is a patent minefield

#40

Post by std_throwaway »

Deinos wrote: post #23

The article mentions Cyrix as a "victim" of Intel patent defense; however, Cyrix not only won their lawsuits, but they also went after Intel for patent violations in the Pentium Pro and Pentium II processors. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrix http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/FSupp/84...

You can win a lawsuit and still lose so much time and money on the way that you are worse off afterwards.

Vice versa you can cause your opponents so much trouble with lawsuits that - even though you don't win them - you are better off than them afterwards.

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