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Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

#11

Post by nopinsight »

Radim wrote: post #4
nopinsight wrote: post #3

I enjoyed listening to the short segment on how and why he gave up chess at 11 despite being ranked 2nd in the world for that age group. Remarkable reflectiveness for an 11-year-old. Check out this down the page: "Demis Hassabis: ‘I thought we were wasting our minds’ AI expert Demis Hassabis on giving up chess tournaments aged 11." It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and h…

I think I understand your sentiment, but I'd object to the phrasing of "trivial pursuits". If history teaches us anything, it's that humanity advances by people following their "trivial interests", rather than being herded onto the "major problems of our complex world". What is or isn't trivial vs important is only obvious in hindsight, unfortunately. That moment might still happen for advertising and the art of capt…

In principle we do not know the long-term impact in advance, but we can often make a probabilistic estimate. Choosing career as an AI researcher vs a Go player, for example.

* Note: If you want to make an impact, whichever your career inclination is, this website provides some great guides: https://80000hours.org/

I think trying to capture more of the world's resources for Google, Facebook, etc. do have a large impact in aggregation, so it's not a trivial pursuit. DeepMind itself and many other techs to come are being funded by these companies.

Personal impact may not be extremely large since there are many other brilliant people working on the same thing but some with a leading role could make a contribution there. (For example if you work for Google, which I believe is a major force for long-term innovation.)

What I had in mind was people who spend careers on games, puzzles, or gambling. I once watched a Ke Jie interview after his loss to AlphaGo and could tell that he is brilliant and would likely be successful in other careers that require sharp thinking.

Some like Christopher Lagan needed to live a double life and is still unlikely to make any real impact on the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Langan

Re: Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

#12

Post by asdfologist »

nopinsight wrote: post #3

I enjoyed listening to the short segment on how and why he gave up chess at 11 despite being ranked 2nd in the world for that age group. Remarkable reflectiveness for an 11-year-old. Check out this down the page: "Demis Hassabis: ‘I thought we were wasting our minds’ AI expert Demis Hassabis on giving up chess tournaments aged 11." It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and h…

Why is chess any more of a trivial pursuit than, say, art or music? Did Mozart or Michelangelo waste their whole lives for nothing?

Re: Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

#13

Post by panic »

nopinsight wrote: post #11
Radim wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I understand your sentiment, but I'd object to the phrasing of "trivial pursuits". If history teaches us anything, it's that humanity advances by people following their "trivial interests", rather than being herded onto the "major problems of our complex world". What is or isn't trivial vs important is only obvious in hindsight, unfortunately. That moment might still happen for advertising and the art of capt…

In principle we do not know the long-term impact in advance, but we can often make a probabilistic estimate. Choosing career as an AI researcher vs a Go player, for example. * Note: If you want to make an impact, whichever your career inclination is, this website provides some great guides: https://80000hours.org/ I think trying to capture more of the world's resources for Google, Facebook, etc. do have a large impac…

In principle we do not know the long-term impact in advance, but we can often make a probabilistic estimate.

I'm not sure this is true. We can't make a probabilistic estimate without a model. And to design an accurate model, you need to describe precisely what it means to ask, "is this activity worth pursuing?" Is there a way to do this without involving all of human society in your model?

Re: Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

#14

Post by nopinsight »

asdfologist wrote: post #12
nopinsight wrote: post #3

I enjoyed listening to the short segment on how and why he gave up chess at 11 despite being ranked 2nd in the world for that age group. Remarkable reflectiveness for an 11-year-old. Check out this down the page: "Demis Hassabis: ‘I thought we were wasting our minds’ AI expert Demis Hassabis on giving up chess tournaments aged 11." It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and h…

Why is chess any more of a trivial pursuit than, say, art or music? Did Mozart or Michelangelo waste their whole lives for nothing?

Mozart and Michelangelo were major innovators in their fields and influenced an enormous number of artists in subsequent ages. Their works were also epitomes of human excellence, something we all can appreciate and be proud of as a species.

If you are likely to make great innovations in chess moves or patterns that will influence a large number of people in subsequent generations, you may have an impact. Given the dominance of computer chess and the small proportion of the world who appreciate advanced chess, your impact will still very likely be smaller than those of giants in art or music.

Fields matter:

Newton and Einstein still changed the world much more than Mozart and Michelangelo did.

Re: Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

#15

Post by nopinsight »

panic wrote: post #13
nopinsight wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In principle we do not know the long-term impact in advance, but we can often make a probabilistic estimate. Choosing career as an AI researcher vs a Go player, for example. * Note: If you want to make an impact, whichever your career inclination is, this website provides some great guides: https://80000hours.org/ I think trying to capture more of the world's resources for Google, Facebook, etc. do have a large impac…

In principle we do not know the long-term impact in advance, but we can often make a probabilistic estimate. I'm not sure this is true. We can't make a probabilistic estimate without a model. And to design an accurate model, you need to describe precisely what it means to ask, "is this activity worth pursuing?" Is there a way to do this without involving all of human society in your model?

As a first approximation, a simple model could be:

The number of people impacted * How greatly their lives are impacted given your existence

Re: Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

#16

Post by muse900 »

nopinsight wrote: post #3

I enjoyed listening to the short segment on how and why he gave up chess at 11 despite being ranked 2nd in the world for that age group. Remarkable reflectiveness for an 11-year-old. Check out this down the page: "Demis Hassabis: ‘I thought we were wasting our minds’ AI expert Demis Hassabis on giving up chess tournaments aged 11." It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and h…

'It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and how we can better engage them on major problems of our increasingly complex world.'

How can you objectify the term 'wasting' (their lives)?

I mean to you the only people that their lives are worth something are scientists?

If you aren't a scientist you have wasted your life?

I think that people that enjoy trivial persuit or chess or whatever it is, haven't wasted anything by doing what they love.

If the only thing you see in life is 'the evolution of science' then I feel sorry for you. There are far better things in life than that. But again each to their own goal, you might enjoy being a scientist and discovering something new, other people might just enjoy living by the beach and have nothing to do with tech. Noone is wasting his/her life.

Also another point, people that can't AI or be good at maths etc doesn't mean they can't have a great mind!

Re: Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

#17

Post by partisan »

muse900 wrote: post #16
nopinsight wrote: post #3

I enjoyed listening to the short segment on how and why he gave up chess at 11 despite being ranked 2nd in the world for that age group. Remarkable reflectiveness for an 11-year-old. Check out this down the page: "Demis Hassabis: ‘I thought we were wasting our minds’ AI expert Demis Hassabis on giving up chess tournaments aged 11." It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and h…

'It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and how we can better engage them on major problems of our increasingly complex world.' How can you objectify the term 'wasting' (their lives)? I mean to you the only people that their lives are worth something are scientists? If you aren't a scientist you have wasted your life? I think that people that enjoy trivial persuit or chess or…

The life of that Shepherd doesn't sound trivial at all. And neither does pursuing a life of chess mastery unless that pursuit doesn't bring one personal growth and satisfaction.

Re: Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

#18

Post by muse900 »

partisan wrote: post #17
muse900 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and how we can better engage them on major problems of our increasingly complex world.' How can you objectify the term 'wasting' (their lives)? I mean to you the only people that their lives are worth something are scientists? If you aren't a scientist you have wasted your life? I think that people that enjoy trivial persuit or chess or…

The life of that Shepherd doesn't sound trivial at all. And neither does pursuing a life of chess mastery unless that pursuit doesn't bring one personal growth and satisfaction.

It's trivial to the people around him, and in my own eyes he is way more successful than demis, you or me will ever be. Because success isn't valued in money, achievements, fame, discoveries. If you do believe that success is only measured in those above, then am sorry about the life you have chosen to live.

Re: Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

#19

Post by nopinsight »

muse900 wrote: post #16
nopinsight wrote: post #3

I enjoyed listening to the short segment on how and why he gave up chess at 11 despite being ranked 2nd in the world for that age group. Remarkable reflectiveness for an 11-year-old. Check out this down the page: "Demis Hassabis: ‘I thought we were wasting our minds’ AI expert Demis Hassabis on giving up chess tournaments aged 11." It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and h…

'It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and how we can better engage them on major problems of our increasingly complex world.' How can you objectify the term 'wasting' (their lives)? I mean to you the only people that their lives are worth something are scientists? If you aren't a scientist you have wasted your life? I think that people that enjoy trivial persuit or chess or…

I did not say wasting their lives. I said their brilliant minds are wasted (from doing something that could be both more fulfilling and impactful).

Personal mastery is good and enjoyable for the person. What if the person can achieve that as well as having a positive impact on others?

I believe humanities, arts, and philosophy have a great deal to offer to the world.

(Tangential: When you say you are sorry for your viewpoint/life/.., as you did twice in this thread, are you being condescending while assuming a lot on the people you talk to?)

Re: Desert Island Discs – Demis Hassabis, CEO of DeepMind [audio]

#20

Post by paulsutter »

muse900 wrote: post #16
nopinsight wrote: post #3

I enjoyed listening to the short segment on how and why he gave up chess at 11 despite being ranked 2nd in the world for that age group. Remarkable reflectiveness for an 11-year-old. Check out this down the page: "Demis Hassabis: ‘I thought we were wasting our minds’ AI expert Demis Hassabis on giving up chess tournaments aged 11." It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and h…

'It makes me wonder how many other brilliant minds are wasted on trivial pursuits and how we can better engage them on major problems of our increasingly complex world.' How can you objectify the term 'wasting' (their lives)? I mean to you the only people that their lives are worth something are scientists? If you aren't a scientist you have wasted your life? I think that people that enjoy trivial persuit or chess or…

You're either making the future happen or you aren't. And Demis is definitely making the future happen.

There's nothing wrong with ordinary lives like yours or mine, but let's give credit where credit is due.

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