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Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

nytimes.com

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Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#221

Post by [deleted] »

lr4444lr wrote: post #173
afuchs wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is called the Grey Market. It isn't a legal designation. The first sale doctrine still applies to bulk purchases. If a seller wants to, they can refuse to sell to anyone that they think will latter resell their product. You can go into a store right now, buy something at full retail price, and list it on eBay. I doubt you would make any money, unless, like Pirate Joe's, you are selling to a market that is unable t…

No, First Sale Doctrine is something else. This guy was not selling copies. There's something in the law pertinent to the fact that this guy bought at a retail location, which causes TJ's loss on their commercial real estate which presumably they invest in to reach the consumer public with quantities said consuming public would typically purchase. Stores can put limits on units per customer of course, but there's rec…

[deleted]

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#222

Post by rayiner »

mattnewton wrote: post #207
rayiner wrote: post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The courts did not "agree." TJs initial loss was on a jurisdictional issue, and they successfully appealed that ruling. The case then settled before trial.

Because he ran out of money. Justice wasn't found, they just bullied him with lawyers.

Regardless, it's wrong to say, as the grandparent poster did, that the courts agreed with Pirate Joes.

Also, saying that TJs "bullied" him assumes that he was not in fact trading on the TJs brand. Look at his store sign: http://www.cknw.com/2017/06/08/pirate-joes-in-vancouver-clos.... Even the font he uses is very similar. He wasn't just reselling TJs products. He was capitalizing on the TJs brand to resell products (at a high markup by the way).

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#223

Post by chii »

rayiner wrote: post #222
mattnewton wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because he ran out of money. Justice wasn't found, they just bullied him with lawyers.

Regardless, it's wrong to say, as the grandparent poster did, that the courts agreed with Pirate Joes. Also, saying that TJs "bullied" him assumes that he was not in fact trading on the TJs brand. Look at his store sign: http://www.cknw.com/2017/06/08/pirate-joes-in-vancouver-clos... . Even the font he uses is very similar. He wasn't just reselling TJs products. He was capitalizing on the TJs brand to resell products…

so you're saying that Pirate Joe is violation of trademark then?

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#224

Post by goodcanadian »

anigbrowl wrote: post #216
goodcanadian wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trader Joe's is different from other stores, not necessarily better or worse. When I lived in California, we did a lot of shopping at Trader Joe's, but you couldn't really get all of your groceries there. Conversely, you could not get equivalents to a lot of Trader Joe's products at other stores. Canada has grocery stores that are 100% equivalent to regular grocery stores in the U.S., but it has nothing that is reall…

Traditionally groceries refers to foodstuffs only. Hence the creation of the word supermarket where groceries, household good and other things things were all sold under one roof. TJs carries a few personal care items like toothbrushes and soap but they're probably only about 2% of the shelf space in a store. They're in the food business, that's it.

When I said "groceries," I was referring to food. I wouldn't be happy having to buy 100% of my food at Trader Joe's.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#225

Post by chipotle_coyote »

falsedan wrote: post #144
post_break wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I buy something from Pirate Joes that is tainted or recalled and get really sick or die. Who do you sue? I can see Trader Joes thinking about that scenario.

Same as if you bought a bad soda at a bodega, or Advil that had been adulterated: the manufacturer, not the retailer.

Setting aside the various snarking about lawsuits, I could imagine this being a more complicated question in that case--Pirate Joe's being an "unauthorized reseller" might be legally significant with respect to liability.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#226

Post by icebraining »

tryitnow wrote: post #143
captainmuon wrote: post #10

I don't understand with what right trader Joe's can prohibit somebody from reselling their products. If he clearly states where he bought them from, and that he is not affiliated, and doesn't misuse their trademarks (impersonate them), it should be absolutely legal. A side remark, people often say how great the US / north America is for entrepreneurs, compared to (continental) Europe where there is a lot of red tape…

I don't think it was about a lack of a reseller agreement. > the company filed a lawsuit against Mr. Hallatt for trademark infringement, unfair competition, false designation of origin and false advertising. It was pretty clear the guy was riffing off the TJ brand - there's plenty of legal precedent for that isn't there? Maybe if he had a different name and was selling products from other companies he'd have more of…

The purpose of trademark law is to avoid confusion, not to provide some sort of property over words.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#227

Post by hayleox »

will_brown wrote: post #45
captainmuon wrote: post #10

I don't understand with what right trader Joe's can prohibit somebody from reselling their products. If he clearly states where he bought them from, and that he is not affiliated, and doesn't misuse their trademarks (impersonate them), it should be absolutely legal. A side remark, people often say how great the US / north America is for entrepreneurs, compared to (continental) Europe where there is a lot of red tape…

A lot of people are using the "I bought chips at Costco and resold them at a concession stand example". This is at least a little different. Say you owned Captainmuon Grocery and only sold private label Captainmuon Chips. Although demand is so high you could distribute your Chips to other groceries and retailers, you see greater value in driving traffic to your store through the exclusive distribution. Don't you have…

From a legal perspective, no, you don't have the right to prevent resale of your products. From a practical perspective though, you can kill resellers by simply entering the same markets as them. They're selling the exact same products as you, but at a significant markup -- you'll put them out of business in no time.

Trader Joes' actions here seem to defy their self-interest. Instead of suing Pirate Joe's out of existence, why not offer to buy them? They've already done half the work of marketing your brand and building a storefront -- seems like it'd be a slam dunk to convert Pirate Joe's into a legitimate Trader Joe's location.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#228

Post by icebraining »

sillysaurus3 wrote: post #203
lsiebert wrote: post #180

I am not a lawyer, so I don't know that I am qualified to comment on the legal issues. I can say that this does make me upset at Trader Joe's, and I will be considering where else I can spend my money. They could have worked with this guy, eventually set up a Trader Joe's in Canada, and then offered to let this guy run it. That would have been better for their brand, in my view. I care about what companies do. Costco…

So it's okay to mimic stores, down to riding on their trademark? It's probably best to think of "What if someone cloned my favorite game and called it a slightly different name?" People had big problems with what Zynga was doing.

When they don't exist in the country, yes. Likewise, if my favorite game had georestrictions prevents its sale in some countries, I'd have no problem with Zynga selling clones for those countries.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#229

Post by ubernostrum »

jandrese wrote: post #82
goodcanadian wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems pretty clear that they have no right to prohibit reselling. He was being sued on trademark grounds. Personally, I think it is likely he would have won, but he could not afford the legal costs to fight it. He never really made money on the project.

He had already won the first round in court. He didn't run out of money until the first appeal.

The court granted a motion on a technical issue of jurisdiction, and an appeals court overturned that decision and sent it back to the original court. That is very different from "he won the first round".

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#230

Post by ubernostrum »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #198
analog31 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to popular belief, I've read that there are actually more entrepreneurs per capita in Europe than in the US.

That might on how the source you read counted "entrepreneurs". In Poland, where I live, probably every other adult is an "entrepreneur" these days - people start one-man companies because employers all across the board are pushing people away from normal job contracts towards fake, on-paper B2B relationships. If you visit a grocery store in Poland, then while regular clerks are most likely normal employees, there's a…

The problem is people typically say "entrepreneur" when they mean "VC-backed vaporware tech startup with no business plan". And as far as I'm aware, it's true that Europe doesn't have as many of those as the US.
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