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Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

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Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#161

Post by sanswork »

cmurf wrote: post #152
basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

Chicago owes a fair and equal competing market and what they've done is permit two totally different regulatory paradigms to exist at the same time: conventional taxes, and new taxies, sometimes also called ride sharing which is obviously bullshit to get around being called a taxi and regulated as a taxi. Uber and Lyft rides are also investor subsidized, and that is likewise market distorting. The city of Chicago, li…

Almost all cities had a category of licensing for car services that were not taxis long before uber showed up.

The only difference between uber and these other car services was the ease at finding a car.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#162

Post by [deleted] »

bitJericho wrote: post #28
TY wrote: post #6

Anectodal evidence from my trip to Chicago last week. The same trip cost me twice as much when I took a taxi vs Lyft. So guess what I'm going to take the next time...

In a taxi your ride was insured if the driver got in an accident. Your cabbie is certified, and less likely to be crazy. Also half your lyft/uber ride is paid by a VC.

[deleted]

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#164

Post by shitgoose »

bitJericho wrote: post #26
tstactplsignore wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter Yikes- I have only a little sympathy for the taxi industry, but it is very scary that you do not believe we should be concerned with whether market forces improve society or not. I think it is extremely important to the vast majority of people that any enormous change in transportation occurs for the benefit of society - the ideology that capitalism is an en…

We'll see what you think of the cab industry when uber raises their prices by 3 times in order to become profitable, after the cabbies all gone.

unreasonable profits should be protected by medallions. if uber does not come up with medallion system that is enforced and protected by elected officials, their rate hike will be a fart in a wind.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#165

Post by tjpd »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #47
bitJericho wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll see what you think of the cab industry when uber raises their prices by 3 times in order to become profitable, after the cabbies all gone.

Yeah, and I bet after Borders shuts down, you'll see Amazon raise book prices sky-high! People always claim this will happen, and it never seems to. If Uber tripled prices, a competitor would start up to cut into their market share.

There are plenty of examples of individual companies (or groups of companies) getting too much monopolistic (or oligopolistic) power and doing just that or similar. You could look at at the Phoebus Cartel of lightbulb manufactures [1], the Bell System monopoly [2], or in transportation the GM Streetcar conspiracy [3].

Due to Uber's network effects you could say they'd have even greater power to change prices dramatically. Let's say Uber became the dominant transportation network in a particular geography and then trebled prices. Any new competitor has to both lure riders and drivers from Uber. Riders, sure they can be lured by cheaper travel but drivers want to earn the most money. Uber could simply double how much they paid drivers. All the existing drivers (and any new drivers) would rather work for Uber and get paid more. In fact they would have a vested interest in seeing the competitor fail.

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoebus_cartel

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_System#Nationwide_monopol...

3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_consp...

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#166

Post by abalashov »

brazzy wrote: post #41
bitJericho wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll see what you think of the cab industry when uber raises their prices by 3 times in order to become profitable, after the cabbies all gone.

That's the thing - without the artificial entry barriers like medallions, if they do that then a competitor like Lyft can show up and undercut them very quickly.

Well. Sort of. I wouldn't underestimate the complexity of all the logistics and automation required to deliver this consistently, reliably, and at a large scale, not to mention network effects, market saturation, getting to critical mass, etc.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#167

Post by taxicabjesus »

sundaeofshock wrote: post #148
tw04 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VCs are just paying for rides until self-driving cars get to the point that drivers are no longer needed. I'm not concerned with the price of rides increasing, I'm concerned with the unemployment our country is going to get punched in the face with. Between cab drivers and OTR (truckers), we're going to have a MUCH bigger problem on our hands than we've seen since Detroit collapsed (which was arguably less of an issu…

VCs are needed until a self-driving car can pick an elderly passenger at the airport and help them with their baggage when they get home. Uber will run out of money long before we have self-driving cars.

> VCs are needed until a self-driving car can pick an elderly passenger at the airport and help them with their baggage when they get home.

This is a very good point. Also consider that many more people need help with groceries than with luggage.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#168

Post by topmonk »

tw04 wrote: post #96
bitJericho wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VCs wont pay for rides forever.

VCs are just paying for rides until self-driving cars get to the point that drivers are no longer needed. I'm not concerned with the price of rides increasing, I'm concerned with the unemployment our country is going to get punched in the face with. Between cab drivers and OTR (truckers), we're going to have a MUCH bigger problem on our hands than we've seen since Detroit collapsed (which was arguably less of an issu…

The people will just move back to the forests and the mountains. The rivers will be their roads, paths their sidewalks, trees their grocery stores, and grubs their food.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#169

Post by chongli »

wutbrodo wrote: post #98
CydeWeys wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Neither this nor the fact that the regulatory regime was horribly flawed change the fact that many drivers got screwed through no fault of their own because gov't policy was incompetent enough to create bad policy and fail to sustain it. There's an important clarification here: Taxi drivers did not get screwed. It's medallion owners that got screwed. Yes, some of the drivers actually own their medallion, but many (…

TL;DR: In an economy with government involvement as heavy as ours[1], it's ludicrous to claim that people should not only know the "true" value of something but know precisely when the gov't is going to decide that the market value should be allowed to revert to its "true" value. > Taxi drivers did not get screwed. It's medallion owners that got screwed Right, good catch, I wasn't thinking about that fact. That's not…

I'll never understand the lack of empathy required to see someone get screwed by unstable rules and conclude "well, it's your own damn fault

The lack of empathy stems from the behaviour of medallion owners. They're right up there with patent trolls in their unlikeability. They purchase access to a government-granted virtual monopoly and use it to extract rent from hard-working people. They form industry associations and use their profits to lobby the issuing municipalities for rate hikes and other laws that help them squeeze the drivers for more money. They produce nothing and the capital they own has zero intrinsic value.

Frankly, I struggle to see what there is to like about them.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#170

Post by monksy »

agotterer wrote: post #137
nserrino wrote: post #25

I probably won't ever take a taxi again, but have some sympathy for the cab drivers who put their life savings in medallions. The city effectively promised them the exclusive right to give taxi rides, but didn't do anything about a non-medallion entity doing that same thing. They put hundreds of thousands of dollars into something meaningless.

Its hard to even consider taking a taxi at this point. I was in Chicago last weekend and considered taking a taxi from the airport into the city. Taxi wanted ~$60 and Uber wanted ~$25. The same thing happened in SF a few months back. The driver wanted $90 to goto Palo Alto and I took an Uber pool for $23. Granted I don't believe for a second that's the actual rate and I'm confident the driver was trying to take advan…

Flatrate rides from ORD to the loop are supposed to be $25. However, you may have to share it with someone... But you'll probably never be able to get that fare. (Look at the chart in the cab)
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