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Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

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Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#131

Post by netheril96 »

jlebar wrote: post #99
thephyber wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> have some sympathy for the cab drivers who put their life savings in medallions Nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. They were speculators in a bubble market. It didn't matter what percentage of their life savings they used. If you feel sorry for someone who purchased a $300k taxi medallion which had an intrinsic value (the total value a medallion can be used for rental to taxi drivers over X years) which is far less, y…

> If you feel sorry for someone who purchased a $300k taxi medallion which had an intrinsic value [...] which is far less, you are enabling such behavior. Dude. Feeling sorry for someone else makes you a human, not an enabler.

Human and enabler are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#132

Post by ams6110 »

weberc2 wrote: post #67
bitJericho wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a taxi your ride was insured if the driver got in an accident. Your cabbie is certified, and less likely to be crazy. Also half your lyft/uber ride is paid by a VC.

I keep hearing this, but I also keep hearing that Lyft and Uber drivers have to go through a background check. Why should I believe that taxi drivers are less likely to be crazy?

They are just running criminal history check. It's not a full investigation such as a government clearance involves.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#133

Post by camus2 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #47
bitJericho wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll see what you think of the cab industry when uber raises their prices by 3 times in order to become profitable, after the cabbies all gone.

Yeah, and I bet after Borders shuts down, you'll see Amazon raise book prices sky-high! People always claim this will happen, and it never seems to. If Uber tripled prices, a competitor would start up to cut into their market share.

Selling books and operating taxis are a very different market.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#134

Post by tw04 »

wutbrodo wrote: post #81
tw04 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also feel bad for the slumlord who spends a million dollars on a property that eventually gets condemned because he didn't take care of it? Had taxi company owners not used those medallions as an excuse to provide absolutely horrendous customer service, they wouldn't have ever had to worry about uber/lyft/whatever in the first place. I've never taken uber or lyft because it's cheaper, I've taken it because I g…

> Do you also feel bad for the slumlord who spends a million dollars on a property that eventually gets condemned because he didn't take care of it? This is the wrong analogy, for trivially obvious reasons. As I'm sure you're aware, the drop in value of taxi medallions wasn't contingent on the owner being a bad driver. Put plainly, even a driver who went above and beyond to provide honest, high-quality service was af…

Really? It's that bad?

OK - prior to Uber breaking onto the scene, which cab company in Chicago: 1. Provided universally clean cabs.

2. Provided an app that allowed me to easily acquire a cab without having to jump through hoops, as well as gave me real-time info on where the cab was at.

3. Provided an easy method for me to provide feedback on my driver so that they could weed out troublesome drivers.

4. allowed me to pay them without having to go through the trouble of carrying cash.

You know, all the reasons the new services are winning. The fact medallion owners provided a shitty experience is ENTIRELY RELEVANT. There NEVER WOULD'VE BEEN A MARKET FOR UBER, if the taxi companies were holding up their end of the bargain. Beginning and end of story.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#135

Post by weberc2 »

ams6110 wrote: post #132
weberc2 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep hearing this, but I also keep hearing that Lyft and Uber drivers have to go through a background check. Why should I believe that taxi drivers are less likely to be crazy?

They are just running criminal history check. It's not a full investigation such as a government clearance involves.

Granted, but presumably my taxi driver isn't privy to state secrets either.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#136

Post by weberc2 »

furioussloth wrote: post #107
weberc2 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Chicago; I rarely use Uber. Mostly Lyft. Works just as well and less embroiled in ethical faux pas.

Same applies for Lyft. The rides are cheap because of VC money. It is a good thing to have competition to keep the prices in check.

The original comment referred to price gouging due to lack of competition. VC money might subsidize the rides (or more likely find ongoing development?), but Uber and Lyft are bound to be cheaper than taxis for as long as they can remain less entangled with governments (less artificial price inflation).

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#137

Post by agotterer »

nserrino wrote: post #25

I probably won't ever take a taxi again, but have some sympathy for the cab drivers who put their life savings in medallions. The city effectively promised them the exclusive right to give taxi rides, but didn't do anything about a non-medallion entity doing that same thing. They put hundreds of thousands of dollars into something meaningless.

Its hard to even consider taking a taxi at this point. I was in Chicago last weekend and considered taking a taxi from the airport into the city. Taxi wanted ~$60 and Uber wanted ~$25. The same thing happened in SF a few months back. The driver wanted $90 to goto Palo Alto and I took an Uber pool for $23.

Granted I don't believe for a second that's the actual rate and I'm confident the driver was trying to take advantage of me. But with ride sharing I don't need to haggle over price and I know the algorithms are ripping me off less than the taxi driver.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#138

Post by edraferi »

djsumdog wrote: post #126
basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

That man took out a loan for a medallion, with the idea that he should be able to sell it once he retires. The medallion is now worthless. If Chicago cares about the cabbies, individual owners should be paid dollar for dollar the value of those medallions, even if no one else will buy them in the future. (Does Chicago buy back the medallions, or do you have to have to sell them to someone else? Is the 300,000 the mar…

> If Chicago cares about the cabbies, individual owners should be paid dollar for dollar the value of those medallions, even if no one else will buy them in the future.

These kinds of markets have some interesting dynamics - carbon credits have similar issues. Basically, the government can set the initial price (because they artificially create the entire supply) but then the market takes over. It's very difficult for the government to set the initial price correctly (i.e., close to the eventual market price)

I seriously doubt that there's an easy mechanism for cabbies to get the city to pay the pre-uber market price for their medallions. They would probably have to sue, claiming that the medallion gave them a guaranteed monopoly that the government failed to uphold. That will turn on exactly what rights the medallion is supposed to entail.

Re: Chicago taxi industry sliding towards collapse

#140

Post by tmh79 »

djsumdog wrote: post #126
basseq wrote: post #3

I'm left wondering... so what? The "personal transportation" market has massively changed. Whether it's for the better or worse simply doesn't matter . Veteran Chicago cabbie John Aikins,67, who is facing foreclosure on two medallions for which he owes more than $330,0000, said he has little hope that the industry can be saved. "It feels like the city is just watching us collapse," Aikins said. "Right now, there are…

That man took out a loan for a medallion, with the idea that he should be able to sell it once he retires. The medallion is now worthless. If Chicago cares about the cabbies, individual owners should be paid dollar for dollar the value of those medallions, even if no one else will buy them in the future. (Does Chicago buy back the medallions, or do you have to have to sell them to someone else? Is the 300,000 the mar…

not a ton of medallian owner/taxi operators. IIRC most are owned by banks, PE firms, etc. They're definitely more of a leveraged financial product than a certificate that allows someone to operate a small business.
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