This story has always baffled me and I've never really understood where Trader Joe's comes from on this. It seems like business opportunity exists, but they're either really full of themselves, or have some other tacit reason for avoiding the Canadian market. I just don't get it, and I don't like how Trader Joe's has behaved here. Right or wrong, as a consumer, I disagree, and I'm putting this down as another reason to never go to a Trader Joe's again.
Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down
201–210 of 283 posts
Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down
#202Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of people are using the "I bought chips at Costco and resold them at a concession stand example". This is at least a little different. Say you owned Captainmuon Grocery and only sold private label Captainmuon Chips. Although demand is so high you could distribute your Chips to other groceries and retailers, you see greater value in driving traffic to your store through the exclusive distribution. Don't you have…
No. You do have a right to go after Commandermuon Grocery for abusing your trademark. Usually liability traverses the chain of custody. If I give you a bag of chips, that doesn't absolve Frito-Lay of liability for a salmonella contamination issue associated with that lot of chips. Likewise, if I crush the chips and sell the bag to you, it's not Frito-Lay's problem, it's mine. This stuff has been litigated extensively…
Another real-world example is "grey market" cameras.
It is very common for camera stores to import cameras from overseas mass retailers in southeast Asia (IIRC Taiwan is a major source) and sell them in the US at a discount. The only limit is that the official Canon/Nikon repair centers know what region a camera was sold in and won't repair a foreign camera without a damned good reason (or a pro photographer rating, which entails owning a certain number of high-end lenses and so on)
Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down
#203I am not a lawyer, so I don't know that I am qualified to comment on the legal issues. I can say that this does make me upset at Trader Joe's, and I will be considering where else I can spend my money. They could have worked with this guy, eventually set up a Trader Joe's in Canada, and then offered to let this guy run it. That would have been better for their brand, in my view. I care about what companies do. Costco…
So it's okay to mimic stores, down to riding on their trademark?
It's probably best to think of "What if someone cloned my favorite game and called it a slightly different name?" People had big problems with what Zynga was doing.
Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down
#204I don't understand with what right trader Joe's can prohibit somebody from reselling their products. If he clearly states where he bought them from, and that he is not affiliated, and doesn't misuse their trademarks (impersonate them), it should be absolutely legal. A side remark, people often say how great the US / north America is for entrepreneurs, compared to (continental) Europe where there is a lot of red tape…
Looks like there's a dark web opportunity there :)
Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down
#205Earlier quoted context omitted.
A lot of people are using the "I bought chips at Costco and resold them at a concession stand example". This is at least a little different. Say you owned Captainmuon Grocery and only sold private label Captainmuon Chips. Although demand is so high you could distribute your Chips to other groceries and retailers, you see greater value in driving traffic to your store through the exclusive distribution. Don't you have…
Nope. You don't have any of those legal rights. The courts agreed, but Trader Joes had bigger pockets and was able to kill Pirate Joes with just legal fees alone. They didn't have to win, they just had to keep him in court until he was broke. This is a pretty common tactic when big corporations are in lawsuits with individuals. Or in the case of healthcare suits they just wait until the plaintiff is dead of whatever…
>keep him in court until he was broke
How many times do we have to hear these kinds of stories of abuse, or patent trolls, or of other unfairness and injustice in the legal system before anything is done about it?
I mean the legal system produces some incredible injustices currently: If we get more stories such as billionaires like Jeffrey Epstein raping underage girls and getting a house-arrest with week nights spent sleeping in a special cell, what does that imply for the rest of us?
The 99% of us are burdened with this BS while the 1% take advantage of it.
Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down
#206Gotta love capitalism, eh? Just like votes, more money = more protection. This certainly wasn't a trademark issue. Trader vs Pirate. There was no question this store wasn't run by Trader Joes/Aldi North. They were buying in bulk to stock a store where they couldn't normally get the goods. Reselling should be 100% A-OK. Any trademarks go along with the products. And as far as I would guess, the grocer certainly wasn't…
Usually it doesn't work to buy products at full retail price and resell them at a higher retail price. I guess the "in Canada" part is how it worked out for him? Trader Joe's probably wants to protect their brand in hopes of a future Canadian expansion.
> Usually it doesn't work to buy products at full retail price and resell them at a higher retail price. I guess the "in Canada" part is how it worked out for him?
This is the most tried-and-true, reliable method of becoming rich in history. You buy something at full retail price, move it, and resell it at a higher full retail price.
Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down
#207Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nope. You don't have any of those legal rights. The courts agreed, but Trader Joes had bigger pockets and was able to kill Pirate Joes with just legal fees alone. They didn't have to win, they just had to keep him in court until he was broke. This is a pretty common tactic when big corporations are in lawsuits with individuals. Or in the case of healthcare suits they just wait until the plaintiff is dead of whatever…
The courts did not "agree." TJs initial loss was on a jurisdictional issue, and they successfully appealed that ruling. The case then settled before trial.
Because he ran out of money. Justice wasn't found, they just bullied him with lawyers.
Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down
#208I don't understand with what right trader Joe's can prohibit somebody from reselling their products. If he clearly states where he bought them from, and that he is not affiliated, and doesn't misuse their trademarks (impersonate them), it should be absolutely legal. A side remark, people often say how great the US / north America is for entrepreneurs, compared to (continental) Europe where there is a lot of red tape…
I buy something from Pirate Joes that is tainted or recalled and get really sick or die. Who do you sue? I can see Trader Joes thinking about that scenario.
Pfft we don't sue at the drop of a hat here in Canada.
There's been several recent recalls of flour over the last few months and other foods tainted but you don't see people suing. The government cracks down but people here can't be bothered to be so petty.
I mean sure it happens if it's really serious but for small stuff people would just think you're a dick.
Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down
#209Earlier quoted context omitted.
I totally get what you're saying, but if you're a business about to open in a new country, and you have to choose a manager for your first location there, would you pick some random businessperson or would you pick a guy you've banned from shopping in your store who's been sneaking into your Seattle stores in a wig and fake glasses in order to sell in Vancouver with inflated prices? Because I'd totally pick the rando…
Well, if the guy with a wig proved he could grow a business selling my products in my target market, and is connected to a large base of potential customers, no I should totally not pick the random guy. Good luck finding someone more motivated.
Trader Joe's own staff are already highly motivated because they're paid really really well.
The reason they don't set up in Canada is not lack of motivation, but that as a chain they'll have to get all sorts of products certified as suitable for sale. Most countries have strict rules about the import and sale of fresh produce or meat. Trader Joe's doesn't want to open a store that doesn't carry a full line of products, which would damage their brand. As a small store owner this guy was able to skate on all that regulatory overhead.
Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down
#210I am not a lawyer, so I don't know that I am qualified to comment on the legal issues. I can say that this does make me upset at Trader Joe's, and I will be considering where else I can spend my money. They could have worked with this guy, eventually set up a Trader Joe's in Canada, and then offered to let this guy run it. That would have been better for their brand, in my view. I care about what companies do. Costco…
So it's okay to mimic stores, down to riding on their trademark? It's probably best to think of "What if someone cloned my favorite game and called it a slightly different name?" People had big problems with what Zynga was doing.
Yeah I'm not buying these arguments either.