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Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

nytimes.com

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Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#141

Post by tryitnow »

As much as I like to side with the little guy, I think it's pretty fair for an establishment to restrict whom they sell to (as long as it's not based on a protected class like race, gender, orientation, etc). Despite being banned from the store this guy still sought out ways to shop there, so I can't defend him too enthusiastically.

Then again it kind of annoys me that TJ's just didn't open a damn store in Canada. And if they don't want to do that then why not just look the other way while someone else took on the risk of importing their products into another country?

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#142

Post by rtx »

mthoms wrote: post #92
hinfaits wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy clearly tried to position himself as a pseudo-Trader Joe's though. He called it Pirate Joes and only sold products from Trader Joe's. It seems like everyone thought of it as a kind of Trader Joe's. Even though copyright infringement might not have been his intent, intent doesn't matter. That said, this does look like egregious legal bullying even if the case holds water. IANAL

> It seems like everyone thought of it as a kind of Trader Joe's. FWIW, I live 4 blocks from Pirate Joes and can tell you that no-one thought of it "as a kind of Trader Joe's". Okay, maybe there are a few uninformed people but it's still a very long way from "everyone".

But big companies can't allow this kind of infringement. They have to defend aggressively. You never to which mistake may cost billions of dollars in the future.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#143

Post by tryitnow »

captainmuon wrote: post #10

I don't understand with what right trader Joe's can prohibit somebody from reselling their products. If he clearly states where he bought them from, and that he is not affiliated, and doesn't misuse their trademarks (impersonate them), it should be absolutely legal. A side remark, people often say how great the US / north America is for entrepreneurs, compared to (continental) Europe where there is a lot of red tape…

I don't think it was about a lack of a reseller agreement.

> the company filed a lawsuit against Mr. Hallatt for trademark infringement, unfair competition, false designation of origin and false advertising.

It was pretty clear the guy was riffing off the TJ brand - there's plenty of legal precedent for that isn't there? Maybe if he had a different name and was selling products from other companies he'd have more of a leg to stand on.

And yes, the legal system sucks sometimes, but it seems like this guy was being deliberately provocative (Irate Joe's? I mean you're just begging for a fight now).

Bottom line, if you really like fighting with big institutions it's going to cost you money so you either need a really good case (and being deliberately provocative undermines that) or you need deep pockets yourself.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#144

Post by falsedan »

post_break wrote: post #138
captainmuon wrote: post #10

I don't understand with what right trader Joe's can prohibit somebody from reselling their products. If he clearly states where he bought them from, and that he is not affiliated, and doesn't misuse their trademarks (impersonate them), it should be absolutely legal. A side remark, people often say how great the US / north America is for entrepreneurs, compared to (continental) Europe where there is a lot of red tape…

I buy something from Pirate Joes that is tainted or recalled and get really sick or die. Who do you sue? I can see Trader Joes thinking about that scenario.

Same as if you bought a bad soda at a bodega, or Advil that had been adulterated: the manufacturer, not the retailer.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#145

Post by Noos »

Problem is it sounds like he was trying to rely on association to the Trader Joe's brand to make money, kind of a shadow franchise. That opens up the problem of brand dilution, and even the most ethical companies have to be ruthless about that, or they can lose their own brand and all the benefits they worked to build with it.

He should have realized the need, and done things like match their product mix with his own brands, work on making the store's own feel, and dampened direct association to Trader Joe's. He didn't and it bit him in the ass. No sympathy here.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#147

Post by _red »

will_brown wrote: post #121
_red wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can't sell something you own, then you don't own it. Being free to dispose of property how you see fit has been a foundation of common law for a few centuries.

In that case you don't own your prescription medication. Reselling alcohol is another legal gray area, but absolutely prohibited to sell to minors, so not being able to dispose of your property how you see fit I guess you don't own your alcohol either.

I completely agree. Also try not paying your property taxes, see how long you own that land.

These types of concessions wind up creeping into "free societies" as economic interest buy laws to help create monopolies.

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#148

Post by wavefunction »

rhizome wrote: post #130
slg wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the difference is the focus on the specific products and their brand. If someone named their candy stand "Silly Wonka" and only sold Nerds and Runts, I am sure they would have Nestle come after them too.

Nestle has the single word "wonka" itself trademarked, so you're going to need a better example.

Willy Zonka

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#149

Post by falsedan »

enknamel wrote: post #47
kefka wrote: post #5

Gotta love capitalism, eh? Just like votes, more money = more protection. This certainly wasn't a trademark issue. Trader vs Pirate. There was no question this store wasn't run by Trader Joes/Aldi North. They were buying in bulk to stock a store where they couldn't normally get the goods. Reselling should be 100% A-OK. Any trademarks go along with the products. And as far as I would guess, the grocer certainly wasn't…

I love capitalism

When is the wedding

Re: Pirate Joe’s, Maverick Distributor of Trader Joe’s Products, Shuts Down

#150

Post by lr4444lr »

captainmuon wrote: post #10

I don't understand with what right trader Joe's can prohibit somebody from reselling their products. If he clearly states where he bought them from, and that he is not affiliated, and doesn't misuse their trademarks (impersonate them), it should be absolutely legal. A side remark, people often say how great the US / north America is for entrepreneurs, compared to (continental) Europe where there is a lot of red tape…

His bulk shopping trips got the attention of Trader Joe’s, and in 2013, the company filed a lawsuit against Mr. Hallatt for trademark infringement, unfair competition, false designation of origin and false advertising.

What's so hard to understand? The guy was using a knock-off name on a well-known brand without permission to sell their same products. Also, food is one of those specially regulated items that distributors must go through certification and checks on quality in most countries as part of consumer protection laws.

Also, I don't know the term for it offhand, (IANAL,) but there's a legal difference between buying a product as a consumer and then disposing of it because you happen not to need it vs. going in and buying in bulk with full intention to resell. There's a kind of implicit agreement when you buy retail.

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