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Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

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Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#121

I actually think that in the long run internet will become more open and here's why. Why do both Facebook and Google exist? They exist to manage servers. Why do we need servers? Because your personal computer/phone might not be able to handle all that much traffic and might not have dem five nines. How much traffic does it need to handle? What if your phone could handle all the traffic the entirety of humanity could…

sounds like the plot of the show silicon valley this season ;-)

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#122
post #54

Seems like the first thing we need is organization. Even if the effort is spent on diversified efforts, having an organization of like-minded people agreeing on overall objectives and prioritizing would probably be the starting point. Is that organization SocialWG? Something else? I have no idea, but I would be open to participate.

Whichever team invents the best co-governing system will win, no? So the organization that arises naturally from ActivityPub, Mastodon, ActivityPub, etc. will provide the activation energy. The question is: can ANY of these solutions compete against private, financial incentives?

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#123

Walled Gardens - Do consumers really feel that it's a big enough problem? As for filter bubbles, a consumer need only visit another news site, right? I hope I'm wrong about this.

Consumers don't care, they'll start caring when their last dollar is squeezed out of them and they start wondering why is their life so shit. At which point, it will be too late.

Is there another way?

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I moved to FastMail for stronger privacy behavior and good quality service. But it's not the level of like... ProtonMail. But I'm patronizing a great company with great customer service that treats me like an adult. Note that while I'm happy to deal with smaller businesses, and happy to spend money on them, I am still pretty wary of advertising-based businesses. It is a slippery slope of doom, and I think it…

>"But it's not the level of like... ProtonMail" Can you elaborate on this? Are there some privacy issues with Fast Mail that don't exist with ProtonMail?

FastMail chooses not to mine your data (even for spam filtering, they only optionally collect emails you permanently delete from the spam folder). They're a paid service, with no advertising. And they have a very strong privacy policy.

ProtonMail encrypts your email storage in an end-to-end manner for client access and storage. (Obviously, unencrypted mail sent to or from other servers could be intercepted.) But their goal is essentially to be mathematically unable to view your email. Of course there are tradeoffs, things like IMAP don't work (without some sort of relay), for example.

Essentially, FastMail makes a point to not violate your privacy, ProtonMail tries to make it so it can't violate your privacy. I lean towards FastMail because it's 'good enough' on privacy, and has a lot of powerful features, but if you're looking to run afoul of state intelligence agencies, you might wanna lean for the latter.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#125
post #60

Make your website of record your website. Make social media platforms and others (e.g. Google) secondary to that. Don't let Google and Facebook control how you build your website. I am amazed at companies that take their websites and subjugate them to their Facebook page. You may gain social attention but you are handing over control. Never, ever, ever say to contact me go to facebook.com/xxxx or my email address is…

Ok, but what about the other 99% of the population who are too busy to completely learn ops and opsec? My mom isn't going to leave facebook to make her own website and host her own email, even if you give her all the tutorials in the world.

Website in a box (docker), put it wherever. This might be a good idea.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#126
Most of this thread seems to interpret "we" as referring to people who think Facebook and Google are problems. If the "we" refers to internet users as a whole, then the answer is clearly that we like Facebook and Google very much and are using them more and more because they are best for doing what we actually want to do - talk to our far-flung friends and find answers to questions.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#127
post #14

I am a member of the W3C Social Web Working Group ( https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg ), and have been organizing IndieWebCamp ( https://indieweb.org/ ) conferences in this space for the last 7 years. We've been making a lot of progress: * https://www.w3.org/TR/webmention/ - cross-site commenting * https://www.w3.org/TR/micropub/ - API for apps to create posts on various servers * https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/ - realt…

Who is implementing these? I saw there was an Apache project as a reference implementation a while ago but it was now abandoned. Is there a new reference implementation or are there plans for creating one?

This looks like a good start for a personal blog site: https://github.com/barryf/transformative

I found this on the Webmention Implementation Report [1].

1. https://webmention.net/implementation-reports/summary/

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#128
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but what about the other 99% of the population who are too busy to completely learn ops and opsec? My mom isn't going to leave facebook to make her own website and host her own email, even if you give her all the tutorials in the world.

Website in a box (docker), put it wherever. This might be a good idea.

That's a fine business idea.

Re: Ask HN: What are we doing about Facebook, Google, and the closed internet?

#130

I'm betting on (and contributing to) IPFS [1]. Some friends and I are working on Peergos [2], which is built on top of IPFS to replace dropbox, email and facebook with a P2P secure and private alternative. [1] https://ipfs.io [2] https://peergos.org

How do you feel about where keybase has been going with some of this (related to peergos)

I think keybase are doing some great work. Their social proof using existing websites is great. Their keybase fs has some similar properties to peergos, but is still centralised and, to the best of my knowledge, closed source (open sourcing only the client doesn't count in my mind).

I want something that is fully decentralised, open source, doesn't depend on DNS, and doesn't expose metadata (including the social graph).

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