Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#81

Post by jswny » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 7:40 PM UTC

namuol wrote: post #28

I love Apple's commitment to privacy, but the notion that privacy precludes powerful AI strikes me as a false dichotomy, and a cop-out. There must be some middle-ground.

Anonymous, transparent data-gathering perhaps? If Apple stripped data of any kind of personally-identifying information and allowed users to view all of the data that was being sent, it could be a good middle ground. However, the problem with that solution is that it's already possible (not easy) to identify users with very little information. Stripping out identifying information doesn't necessarily mean that the information wouldn't be useful at all in the right hands (say, the government) to identify someone.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#82

Post by mtgx » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 7:41 PM UTC

I bet they won't be quoting this headline at the next WWDC.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#83

Post by macinjosh » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 7:42 PM UTC

jswny wrote: post #71

macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I seriously doubt that there is a significant number of customers that Apple attracts by being pro-privacy. On HN and similar environments, sure, plenty of people here value privacy, as do I. However, don't think for a second that the community on HN is in any way representative of Apple's customer base at all. Apple customers buy Apple products because they work well, look nice, are popular here in the US, etc., but…

For their younger demographic I would agree they don't care bout privacy yet. For ~30+ year olds I think it is a big pull. Especially those that have ever had their identity stolen (even though its not really relevant). The average person isn't going to understand how or why Apple's products are better at privacy but if they get the message out there I am certain a good chunk of consumers will see it as a plus.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#84

Post by eric_b » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 7:44 PM UTC

I've still not seen any AI that really gets me excited. Google Now does some neat things - but if the home automation products from Amazon and Google are representative of the state-of-the-art - we have an awful long way to go before AI is any kind of game changer.

More likely AI/ML is another trip down buzzword lane. It can hang out with IoT, VR, Big Data, and hell, even containers and microservices.

It feels like everyone is casting about for that next revolutionary technological innovation, but maybe we just need to be at a plateau for awhile.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#85

Post by macinjosh » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 7:46 PM UTC

krrishd wrote: post #42

macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

> it's something people want I feel the same as you do, but are we sure that the mainstream public actually WANTS privacy, especially when compared to the utility companies are providing by taking it away?

I don't think the tech community gives the general public enough credit when it comes to privacy. If you asked someone whether they wanted a phone that has more privacy risks but also more features or a phone that has less features but more privacy I don't think the former would win hands down. Maybe more would pick the former but a big chunk would pick the latter and that is OK for Apple. They've never needed the majority of the market.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#86

Post by timcamber » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 7:47 PM UTC

et-al wrote: post #77

virmundi wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if they've fixed this, or if was just me not working the phone right, but Disney's park maps kept tracking when the app was closed.

> Disney's park maps kept tracking when the app was closed Closed or in the background? I was under the impression (in iOS 10 and earlier), that "Always" meant anytime the app was open, and "While in use" is only when the app is in the foreground. So if an app has "Always" on for its Location Services, it will stop tracking when I swipe up and quit it. If I've been incorrect this whole time, please pass the tinfoil.

Additionally, with iOS 11, it seems Apple has forced the "while in use" option on apps that didn't include it on their own for location permissions.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#87

Post by JauntTrooper » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 7:49 PM UTC

jswny wrote: post #71

macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I seriously doubt that there is a significant number of customers that Apple attracts by being pro-privacy. On HN and similar environments, sure, plenty of people here value privacy, as do I. However, don't think for a second that the community on HN is in any way representative of Apple's customer base at all. Apple customers buy Apple products because they work well, look nice, are popular here in the US, etc., but…

That's probably true in the US, though I wonder if it is more important internationally.

There are a lot of people living under potentially abusive dictatorships.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#88

Post by abritinthebay » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 7:50 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #72

old-gregg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making two assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First, you're assuming that you have control over what kind of information is being collected and shared, and you're assuming it's always good for you. Here's a fairly innocent scenario: if Amazon Echo can learn everything about you, they may discover that you're crazy about Paris and you have good income. Then they can sell this info to every travel websit…

If you have knowledge and control over who gets your information and how they use, well that's effectively the definition of good privacy.

But you don't. You have only control over the former. History has shown us time and time again you don't have control over the latter.

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#89

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 7:53 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #72

old-gregg wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are making two assumptions that aren't necessarily true. First, you're assuming that you have control over what kind of information is being collected and shared, and you're assuming it's always good for you. Here's a fairly innocent scenario: if Amazon Echo can learn everything about you, they may discover that you're crazy about Paris and you have good income. Then they can sell this info to every travel websit…

If you have knowledge and control over who gets your information and how they use, well that's effectively the definition of good privacy.

[deleted]

Re: Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse

#90

Post by s73ver » Thu, Jun 08, 2017, 7:55 PM UTC

pwython wrote: post #51

macinjosh wrote: post #3

I am an Apple fanboy but I am also a privacy fanboy. As AI, IoT, and consumer tracking continue to invade our daily lives I think Apple will continue to do quite well if they maintain there pro-privacy heading. Privacy is a feature, it's something people want, and unfortunately its becoming a luxury. That is something that attracts Apple's customers.

I'm one of the few in the "tech world" that isn't so much pro-privacy. Google can read my email, Apple can track my movements, my Amazon Echo can even listen in when it wants. The end result is a huge benefit to me. How is any AI supposed to know what I want, if I try to be an anonymous user? I prefer targeted ads. I prefer submitting my information to "robots" in the hopes that my user experience is tailored to what…

Except Apple shows that you don't have to sacrifice privacy. Just about all of their ML stuff happens on the device. So you can have things that are quite similar to what Google gives you, without giving up that privacy.