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How Not to Fix Soccer

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Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#41
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Video replays make for longer stoppages. To my mind, football is more enjoyable to watch when the action is more or less continuous. Replays would interfere with that continuity. Where they have could some value is in dealing with automatic suspensions. If a player is wrongly red-carded, for example, I see no reason a replay couldn't be used to exonerate them and undo the automatic suspension that follows a red card.

Rugby has video replays, and these are only used when there is a potential try. It's easy to limit the video ref to perhaps situations where there is a goal scored, and maybe when there is a penalty is at stake.

[deleted]

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#42
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the World Cup there are always 3 refs on the field, even though really only 1 is needed. I don't get that; the extra "refs" simply reduce the chance of an error being made. It is possible to play pretty effectively without them. Actually there is still only one ref - none of the others can make a decision, only advise the referee and provide an alternative viewpoint if he misses an event.

Which is exactly how a video ref would work: advise the main referee to reduce mistakes. And the current world cup certainly could use that given the horrible rate of horrible calls.

yes, but it is going too far. Waving a flag, or perhaps the occasional short conversation does not delay a match very much. There is a net gain.

I can't see much of a net gain in video refs simply due to the unnecessary delay. One of the delights of football is that 15-20 seconds after a goal they are kicking off again.

(the calls in this world cup have been pretty good; I've watched, literally, every game so far and there have been a couple of shockers - which obviously we notice - but generally it has been good)

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#43
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Yes. Alot. Injuries already interrupt the flow of the game - and one thing Football is good at is flowing (one reason I personally enjoy it). A good game is non-stop action (which is my only criticism of US sports - I usually get bored waiting for baseball for example :)) Match outcomes are routinely altered by erroneous ref. decisions, decisions which the whole wor…

One possibility would be to use after-the-game replays only to punish particularly egregious behavior, like blatant dives, with suspensions. Wouldn't interrupt the flow of the game, but would deter wrongdoing.

FIFA already does this ... though there's a lot of bias involved.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#44
Who says soccer has to scale down well? And who says this is a good rationale to base the rules on?

The whole point of playing a game as a child, IMO, is to learn the basic skills of the game as well as possible and to have fun. Do you think the street kids of Brazil and Argentina, some of whom grow up to be some of the finest natural footballers in the world, worry about the pair of t-shirts they use as goalposts isn't FIFA regulated, or the battered football they use isn't either?

The whole point of playing the game at amateur level when you are older is to play the game you have loved since you were a child. Do you think every amateur game even has 2 linesmen to aid the ref?

This is a totally different proposition to watching the World Cup, Champions League, English Premiership, La Liga or the Serie A. Millions of fans tune in and watch these high-level games, and billions of euros are generated by the sport. When Thierry Henry cheats by blatantly handling the ball, incorrectly getting France into the World Cup, when Kaka, one of the greats of the modern game, gets sent off by some diving, cheating pr*ck, when the ref disallows a perfectly legit goal for the USA, millions of fans are turned off by this crap. Diving is another huge area which is wrecking soccer too. Video refereeing and being able to appeal obviously incorrect decisions like most other modern sports is badly needed to bring the game into the 21st century.

The argument about video refereeing slowing the game down doesn't stand up either. At least trial the system for a few months in major competitions where the necessary equipment already is in place - if it doesn't work after that, then I've got egg on my face. People who argue the reverse are mired in the past, and don't have the balls and vision to at least experiment with something that could bring on a new level of professionalism, and fairness to the sport instead of rewarding cheaters and divers.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#46
post #26

The argument outlined in the article is absurd. Soccer is and has been by far the most popular sport participation wise in the USA for decades. I played and refereed it competitively for close to two decades until I started having problems with my knees. Most Americans are very well versed in soccer and have either played it themselves or have at least watched their kids play it. Most Americans have no problems with…

It seems you are not very familiar with soccer rules. Just a few comments:

1,3. is already true. There is post-morten review, we do see red-cards being cancelled and players being suspended all the time.

4. It is like this already. FIFA rules says that "when in doubt, favor the offense".

5. There has been some national championships with 2 field referees, it didn't noticeably improve the quality of the calls. FIFA allows rule experimentation from time to time on national fields. We've seen "blue cards" (where players must be replaced by others) for instance, two referees, etc... sometimes those rules end up in the official set: referees telling how many extra minutes of play was one of those experiments.

6. They do. English is spoken among all referees in a world cup game, except when all referees share the same nationality.

7. There are recognizable hand signals for all calls, but not for all rationales which would be impossible.

8. I have no clue what you mean by this suggestion. Just wanted to point out that it includes "discretionary power to the referee" while rule 2 suggested that this is "anarchy".

9. What happened to rule 9? Well, I want to use this opportunity to make a point that your comment (as most of comments suggesting new rules) seems to be sincerely trying to create a better game. But this game is just not soccer.

10. Players are not allowed to return immediately and they do must wait for the referees approval.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#47
I'm not a particularly big fan of football, but even so it's glaringly obvious to me when I read articles by certain people (let's just say it's those who call it soccer) that they.. just don't get it. This isn't just random bloggers, I've read articles in big papers like the NY Times, and as much as they want and try to, they don't really understand it. It's not "inside" them like it is for me (involuntarily) and billions of others.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#48
post #39
post #26

The argument outlined in the article is absurd. Soccer is and has been by far the most popular sport participation wise in the USA for decades. I played and refereed it competitively for close to two decades until I started having problems with my knees. Most Americans are very well versed in soccer and have either played it themselves or have at least watched their kids play it. Most Americans have no problems with…

I think this is just differing perspectives; a lot of what you highlight, for me, makes US sports unwatchable (as i said elsewhere I can't watch all of a baseball game simply through boredom - despite quite liking the game). (though for the record post-mortems, referee training etc. are good ideas) Referees should be required to make distinguishing hand signals for each call. This would greatly aid the players, the f…

I agree with you on the above points except for the five minutes rule. The point is to provide a disincentive to get on the stretcher. If you can get your butt up and recover on the side, you should do it. If you can't, there's no shame, but if you can get right back up and back in, then obviously it wasn't that big of a deal in the first place.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#49
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Based on the events of the past year, the officiating most certainly does need to be fixed.

yes i see where you are coming from, some officials have been making bad calls. but some would argue that the refereeing is part of the game and instituting video replays etc might unnecessarily complicate matters and ruin the flow of the game. i play soccer in an amatuer league every weekend and although the referees generally are not of a high standard, I still enjoy it. its part of the game.

Disparate levels of play do not require arbitrariness in officiating. I don't do soccer at any level, but in my spare time I do work and hold a certification as a tournament judge for Magic (the card game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering). The DCI -- sanctioning body for organized Magic -- has formal standards for officiating which work at and scale from the smallest local game shop tournaments all the way up to massive events with large cash prizes and a pro tour. And one of the biggest goals is to ensure consistency: enforcement shouldn't and can't vary from judge to judge, because that would fundamentally damage the integrity of the entire tournament system.

Given that as background, the lack of consistency I see in World Cup officiating literally makes me shudder. And the worst part is that the usual straw men brought up in response -- massive delays due to replay, etc., etc., -- are, well, just straw men. A few simple, non-game-disrupting, changes (a highly-relevant example: let a team captain or a coach ask an official to state the foul for which a penalty has been issued, something which, so far as I'm aware, practically every other organized sport in the world does) could vastly improve both the actual and perceived consistency and fairness of soccer, but FIFA doesn't seem to care enough to do anything.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#50
post #23
post #16

I am familiar with the FIFA's reasoning, and I just don't think it holds up. The best example is the NBA: advanced technical rules at NBA games aren't stopping anyone from playing basketball on the courts or at the High School level. Also, the rules are different anyways. At the FIFA level, games are played on large fields for 2x45 minutes, there are 4 refs, etc. AFAIR HS level games were 2x30 minutes and we were luc…

Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Yes. Alot. Injuries already interrupt the flow of the game - and one thing Football is good at is flowing (one reason I personally enjoy it). A good game is non-stop action (which is my only criticism of US sports - I usually get bored waiting for baseball for example :)) Match outcomes are routinely altered by erroneous ref. decisions, decisions which the whole wor…

Yes. Alot.

No. Not at all. Games are already being interrupted constantly by players diving, kicking each other. Video replays wouldn't add that much.

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