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How Not to Fix Soccer

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31–40 of 151 posts

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#31

Three counter-points: 1. FIFA makes a ton of money from the World Cup. The sponsorship and protection efforts of the sponsorship are ridiculously elaborate. 2. Even FIFA doesn't scale the game linearly. In the World Cup there are always 3 refs on the field, even though really only 1 is needed. Further, there are many different types of football balls (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_%28ball%29 ), so again,…

In the World Cup there are always 3 refs on the field, even though really only 1 is needed.

I don't get that; the extra "refs" simply reduce the chance of an error being made. It is possible to play pretty effectively without them.

Actually there is still only one ref - none of the others can make a decision, only advise the referee and provide an alternative viewpoint if he misses an event.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#32
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Yes. Alot. Injuries already interrupt the flow of the game - and one thing Football is good at is flowing (one reason I personally enjoy it). A good game is non-stop action (which is my only criticism of US sports - I usually get bored waiting for baseball for example :)) Match outcomes are routinely altered by erroneous ref. decisions, decisions which the whole wor…

One possibility would be to use after-the-game replays only to punish particularly egregious behavior, like blatant dives, with suspensions. Wouldn't interrupt the flow of the game, but would deter wrongdoing.

Yes, that's something I think they should do.

The problem is ensuring the game is recorded fairly - they could use the existing cameras certainly but I suspect it's a non-trivial discussion to ensure that the camera coverage is fair for review purposes.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#33
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Question for the Americans: Is soccer really on the brink of becoming a popular sport in your country? No, but it's slowly trending upwards. Without looking it up, the top American spectator sports are American football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR racing, hockey, golf, and tennis. The problem is that the best American athletes look to one of top three American sports - if you look at top NBA and NFL players, many…

NBA players and soccer? You must be joking. Unless you want 11 Peter Crouches running around the field...

If the USA qualified for a world cup with a team of NBA players, at the very least, the TV ratings would be good...

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#34
post #29
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He forgets about one thing - pro football is not managed by a single referee because it'd be impossible, he has 2 side referees to help. Also, in amateur (edit: for fun, not non-pro leagues) football you usually play without offsides or almost without them; while in pro there is a ridiculous situation where a rule meant to prevent static play (standing in front of the goal waiting for a pass) is often ripping the gam…

where? maybe for 7-10 year old kids but even low games that have only 1 referee will be played with offside (at least thats my experience playing until the age of 16) i think the DFB (german football association) requires 3 referees starting from the 7th or 8th league. and below that they just dont have the manpower.

you're right, by amateur I meant the first level of engaging with sport, not amateur leagues. sorry for the confusion. made an edit.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#35
post #26

The argument outlined in the article is absurd. Soccer is and has been by far the most popular sport participation wise in the USA for decades. I played and refereed it competitively for close to two decades until I started having problems with my knees. Most Americans are very well versed in soccer and have either played it themselves or have at least watched their kids play it. Most Americans have no problems with…

Good points.

Football is a gentlemans sport, played by hooligans. I suspect thats why the refs don't take a very central place in the sports administrative structure.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#36
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Question for the Americans: Is soccer really on the brink of becoming a popular sport in your country? No, but it's slowly trending upwards. Without looking it up, the top American spectator sports are American football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR racing, hockey, golf, and tennis. The problem is that the best American athletes look to one of top three American sports - if you look at top NBA and NFL players, many…

NBA players and soccer? You must be joking. Unless you want 11 Peter Crouches running around the field...

I'm thinking someone like Chris Paul or Rajon Rondo - same height and similar physical build to Cristiano Ronaldo, very fast and tough players with a good idea for spacing and good intuition and decisionmaking. Who knows how they'd take to the game, but I wouldn't be surprised if either could play futbol at the highest level.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#37
post #2

Question for the Americans: Is soccer really on the brink of becoming a popular sport in your country? I read that ESPN is investing lots of money into the world cup coverage and reddit is full of related submissions.

Hey, things change. It wasn't all that long ago that rugby was big in the USA.

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#38
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it really kill soccer if we had video replay? Yes. Alot. Injuries already interrupt the flow of the game - and one thing Football is good at is flowing (one reason I personally enjoy it). A good game is non-stop action (which is my only criticism of US sports - I usually get bored waiting for baseball for example :)) Match outcomes are routinely altered by erroneous ref. decisions, decisions which the whole wor…

One possibility would be to use after-the-game replays only to punish particularly egregious behavior, like blatant dives, with suspensions. Wouldn't interrupt the flow of the game, but would deter wrongdoing.

it's already being done, but not to punish dives. it's used to analyze more serious situations such as brutal fouls (a player can get additional punishment by football associations after the game, even to a complete season dismiss) or alleged corruption.

dives are stupid and I hate them, but I think they are far overrated in the US (assumption from what I see in internet discussions)

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#39
post #26

The argument outlined in the article is absurd. Soccer is and has been by far the most popular sport participation wise in the USA for decades. I played and refereed it competitively for close to two decades until I started having problems with my knees. Most Americans are very well versed in soccer and have either played it themselves or have at least watched their kids play it. Most Americans have no problems with…

I think this is just differing perspectives; a lot of what you highlight, for me, makes US sports unwatchable (as i said elsewhere I can't watch all of a baseball game simply through boredom - despite quite liking the game).

(though for the record post-mortems, referee training etc. are good ideas)

Referees should be required to make distinguishing hand signals for each call. This would greatly aid the players, the fans, and the commentators in determining exactly what the ruling was.

This is the case - hand signals are pretty conclusive in Football (and relatively simple).

Offsides should always be "tie goes to the offense".

Ouch, no. You'd see far too many goals scored like this; in fact from my observation the way it comes out if "tie could go both ways" - which makes it all the more fun/difficult to play. And more importantly keeps it relatively fair. I dislike sports that are "binary" - i.e. if it's A it's A. In football sometimes it is A but the ref calls B.

For minor fouls in the box on set pieces, there should be discretionary power to the referee to retake or reverse the direction of the kick instead of either calling a game altering PK or doing nothing (and thus providing an incentive for questionable behavior in the box). There's simply insufficient granularity there. Minor defensive holding should generate a warning and another kick from the same spot for another scoring chance (but at a much lower scoring percentage than PK).

See this is what frustrates me about US sports... it starts to get complicated. There is no need to introduce this complexity because the game is already well defined and correctly played in this area.

If a player leaves the field of play for an injury, or is down for more than 1 minute, the player should not be able to return for 5 minutes.

This just demonstrates, IMO, a misunderstanding of the game. 5 minutes may be no time in, say, American Football. In Football the game could be entirely changed in 5 minutes.

I think the biggest problem is that compared to many US sports Football is an extremely fast moving game that relies on being able to run smoothly and cohesively. For example if the ball goes out of bounds it could easily be thrown back in within just a few seconds and the momentum of the game continues (for me this is what I enjoy most).

There is, obviously, a culture difference. I think that is why I find US sports quite boring and unwatchable and some Americans want to change/slow/formalise football. I think... each to our own thank you :)

In my mind football is a perfect spectator sport because of the "flaws" introduced by human error. They make a game less predictable, more excruciating, provide human emotion etc.

(although I do think the current crop of players are a bunch of spoiled brats and need to be reminded of the real game)

Re: How Not to Fix Soccer

#40
post #31

Three counter-points: 1. FIFA makes a ton of money from the World Cup. The sponsorship and protection efforts of the sponsorship are ridiculously elaborate. 2. Even FIFA doesn't scale the game linearly. In the World Cup there are always 3 refs on the field, even though really only 1 is needed. Further, there are many different types of football balls (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_%28ball%29 ), so again,…

In the World Cup there are always 3 refs on the field, even though really only 1 is needed. I don't get that; the extra "refs" simply reduce the chance of an error being made. It is possible to play pretty effectively without them. Actually there is still only one ref - none of the others can make a decision, only advise the referee and provide an alternative viewpoint if he misses an event.

Which is exactly how a video ref would work: advise the main referee to reduce mistakes. And the current world cup certainly could use that given the horrible rate of horrible calls.
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