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Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

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Re: Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

#61

Post by throwanem »

Radim wrote: post #31
mcbits wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not perfect synonyms, but we do have shorter words in the same semantic ballpark: virtue, vigor, zeal, concern, care, pains...

I'd say the first three are completely off; "concern" & "care" better (I also heard "grit"), but not quite there.

"Grit" is more like an unwillingness to surrender to adversity.

"Care" I think is the closest monosyllabic equivalent. Diligence and attention to detail are specifically exhorted by "take care", and caution by "use care". Conversely, one may disclaim them all with "I don't care".

It's a short word and probably an old one, so it's heavily freighted with denotations and connotations alike, and finds much use outside this context. But if you want to say "conscientiousness" in fewer than five syllables - which is a sensible thing to want - then I think "care" must be the most accurate word with which to do so.

Re: Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

#62

Post by ZeroGravitas »

pale-hands wrote: post #42
mootothemax wrote: post #30

For a good etymological mystery, it's hard to beat "dog." Not only is the word "dog" of unknown origin, its equivalents in Spanish and various Slavic languages also apparently appeared from nowhere. http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=dog If that's not fun enough, there's an extinct Aboriginal language from Australia which has a word for dog. That word is also "dog" - apparently pronounced the same as in English…

Opposite of the topic (ultra-nonconserved?), "butterfly" is a word that is strangely different in even closely related European languages (Romance, Teutonic, Slavic). Doing a cursory check in Google Translate now, but I've one found one language pair where the words appear to be related: French: "papillon", Catalan "papallona". Otherwise: mariposa, бабочка, motyl, schmetterling, vlinder, sommerfugl, fjäril, farfalla,…

I was amused to realise that Turkey (the animal) has a wide range of different names, often a country foreign to the language.

i.e in Turkey they call Turkey Indian, in Portugal they call it Peru, in Malay it's a Dutch Chicken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_names_for_turkeys

Re: Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

#63

Post by MagnumOpus »

throwanem wrote: post #57
ginko wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Schmetterling may be semantically linked to butterfly via 'batter-fly' (beater-fly) No, it's semantically linked via 'butter'. Schmetterling comes from Schmetten or Schmand which is a sort of heavy cream. There used to be a folk believe that butterflies would consume milk or butter if left uncovered. They were also sometimes called Milkdieb or milk-thief in German. See: www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=butterfly

> Schmetten or Schmand which is a sort of heavy cream. Is "smetana" a false friend?

That is disputed. Most scholars say that germanic "schmand" has different roots and is cognate with English "smooth" - some scholars however consider schmand a very old loan word from proto-slavic smetana.

Re: Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

#64

Post by kruczek »

iagooar wrote: post #17
avz wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You have to go out of your way to find a language where "tea" deviates from those patterns. Well, there you go: Lithuanian: arbata, https://translate.google.com/#en/lt/tea Polish: herbata, https://translate.google.com/#en/pl/tea Aymara: pulu, https://ay.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulu

Yet in Polish the word "czaj" also exists and it means a very strong tea. Herbata seems to come from Latin, as it relates to herbs.

Interesting, I never actually encountered "czaj" used to describe tea. From a quick search it seems to be either prison slang, or a word used in eastern Poland, coming from Russia.

And then there's "czajnik" for teapot.

Re: Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

#65

Post by petecox »

ino wrote: post #43
rmetzler wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should lookup the word for pineapple in other languages. English is the outlier, most (or all, IIRC) call it "ananas".

Also 'piña' in spanish and 'abacaxi' in brazilian portuguese. Abacaxi is such a fun word to say out loud.

Names in Spanish for fruit & veg vary greatly by country.

I'm pretty sure 'ananas' is still pineapple in parts of South America, where it's a key ingredient in a Chilean cocktail.

furthermore - palta = avocado, durazno = peach, choclo = corn etc - some of the words that are completely different from their Peninsular Spanish equivalents.

Re: Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

#66

Post by Sunset »

rabboRubble wrote: post #3

I really like the word "tea" across languages. Japanese - cha Chinese - chá Thailand - chā Russian - чай (chay) Turkish - Çay (chai) Sri Lanka Sinhala - තේ (tē) Arabic - شاي (shay) German - tee English - tea! You have to go out of your way to find a language where "tea" deviates from those patterns.

The Bulgarian form is the same as the russian чай (chay).

Re: Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

#67

Post by pbhjpbhj »

Kostic wrote: post #55
pale-hands wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opposite of the topic (ultra-nonconserved?), "butterfly" is a word that is strangely different in even closely related European languages (Romance, Teutonic, Slavic). Doing a cursory check in Google Translate now, but I've one found one language pair where the words appear to be related: French: "papillon", Catalan "papallona". Otherwise: mariposa, бабочка, motyl, schmetterling, vlinder, sommerfugl, fjäril, farfalla,…

> All the Slavic languages known to Google Translate have a word related to motyl, except for Russian In Serbian and Croatian the word for butterfly is лептир/leptir.

Which relates to the Greek word used as a base for lepidopterist?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lepidopterology

Re: Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

#68

Post by taejo »

nandemo wrote: post #50
schoen wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to have a folk etymology for chocolate as cacao + lait (or latte ), which feels very plausible despite being historically incorrect!

For some values of "plausible"? I'm pretty sure pre-Colombian mayans and aztecs didn't consume animal milk, as they hadn't domesticated cows, sheeps or goats.

This is presumably a folk etymology of the French or English word "chocolate", not of the Aztec word "xocolatl"

Re: Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

#69

Post by taejo »

captainmuon wrote: post #48
beagle3 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to Pineapple which is basically "ananas" in every language except English (pineapple) and Spanish (piña); though "ananas" is also accepted, but rarely used, in Spanish, so English stands alone. [0] https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/134659/why-is-pi...

Except in Austrian German, where "Ananas" can strangely mean "strawberry" :-)

The scientific name for garden strawberries Fragaria × ananassa. They are hybrids of F. virginiana and F. chiloensis (both of which come from the parts of the Americas referred to in their names). They apparently have a pineappley aroma in comparison to their native European cousins, F. vesca.

Re: Ultraconserved words in use since the last Ice Age

#70

Post by pbhjpbhj »

jaimebuelta wrote: post #58
pale-hands wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Opposite of the topic (ultra-nonconserved?), "butterfly" is a word that is strangely different in even closely related European languages (Romance, Teutonic, Slavic). Doing a cursory check in Google Translate now, but I've one found one language pair where the words appear to be related: French: "papillon", Catalan "papallona". Otherwise: mariposa, бабочка, motyl, schmetterling, vlinder, sommerfugl, fjäril, farfalla,…

Seems like that word is very fragmented. Here's a map of the different ways of naming it in Euskera (Basque language). In a very small area you have a lot of ways of naming the same animal... Any reason why there's something special about butterflies that we don't agree on their name? https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsK-lFaXEAA7zpT.jpg

Hypothesis: they attract folklore because of their beauty, fleeting appearances, etc. and so get named according to local tales?
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