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A day without JavaScript

sonniesedge.co.uk

381–390 of 412 posts

Re: A day without JavaScript

#381
More people should be aware of static blog generators.

It's a kind of software used to make websites where you write your posts in a markup language like reStructuredText or Markdown, and once done a script transforms it into HTML and CSS. Various plugins exist, including for comments, although this tends to sacrifice your "staticness" in varying degrees, especially if you just use Disqus.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#382

>Verdict: Cartography catastrophe. As much as I hate JavaScript, Google Maps gets a pass. I'm pretty sure the code behind it is thoroughly tested. We can just suck it up and turn JavaScript on for one of the most useful tools from the internet -- how hard is it to find something that whitelists domains to run JS anyway?

There should be something as a fallback, though, surely? Take out all the functionality, by all means, but at least give me a map image. If you can't even get link-to-zoom working to display different images, just give me a map image based on my IP location; give me anything rather than nothing.

Remember the HTML map tag? [1]. There is a huge amount they could do to make maps usable without JS (or even CSS). Zooming and panning would be pretty easy to implement, but would involve reloading the page with new coords.

1. https://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Web/HTML/Element/map

Re: A day without JavaScript

#383

Looking forward to the author's follow up: "A day without a CPU". I am sick of lazy, profligate coders assuming that my computer is a von Neumann machine. And that just because I run their software, I am happy with it spending billions of my CPU cycles. How did we, as an industry, get to this point!?

I spent the first 6000+ days of my life without a CPU, and it mostly worked fine thanks. Even now I spend the occasional day without one.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#384
post #242

This is everyday for me. Just whitelist the few sites that actually need it and most of the rest are fine. This should be the default. What do I care if some images don't load or CSS is slightly off? The main content is there. For sites that won't do anything without JS, I can consider whether I want to use them or not. Mostly not. Fuck other people running code unnecessarily, without my permission, on my computer. E…

I find myself doing the same if I'm not on WiFi. I'll tether my samsung phone to my laptop, disable JS on chrome, whitelist what I like, jump into incognito to temporarily whitelist some page that requires JS; when done in incognito, the site isn't permanently whitelisted, it's just for that incognito session. I know! Laborious, but it must be done. I got into this habit because of the insane number of websites that…

Why i use Opera Mini even though the phone is quite capable of rendering the full page.

Just wish there was a way to install Opera Mini on Windows tablets...

Re: A day without JavaScript

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree. Do you stop to think flash/action script was "obsolete" because all this? and now we have the exact same problems...

I did a lot of Flash/Flex work - it was the bees knees of front-end dev in the days before JQuery, Firebug, Chrome etc. and was the most consistent across platforms, as the same plugin was used on each, as opposed to trying to make your web-standards-based app work on several incompatible implementations. HTML/JS/CSS didn't come close at that time, but there was hope that it would develop to make Flash obsolete - whi…

Because designers keep trying to turn static pages into "interactive" glossy booklet emulators, never mind "app"...

Re: A day without JavaScript

#386
post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Presumably this occurs when the site uses a CDN for their js libraries (or even their main js). After a few days you start to spot which domains need to be enabled and which can be safely ignored.

Can you whitelist a CDN but only for a specific site?

Best i recall, even if you whitelist a CDN it only comes into action if you whitelist the root domain of the site you are visiting.

Beyond that i guess there is GRE, where you can build "firewall" rules.

For example i have Facebook blocked via it unless i visit Facebook.com directly, thus they don't see me browsing all manner of sites via their like buttons and comment boxes.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#387
post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Work expands to fill the time allocated for its completion." This holds true for computer scripts executing a workload as well.

Developers tend to over time expand their programs to fill available memory and take up available CPU, too. My currently open text editor's memory footprint is apparently 36.6MB, and it is displaying a single file composed of ~1000 characters.

The scary thing is that I actually consider that to be remarkably small. My current Emacs session (recently opened) is just over 200 MB is size. And Emacs isn't even considered a hog anymore compared to the real hogs like Atom.

Remember when Emacs meant Eight Megabytes And Constantly Swapping?

Re: A day without JavaScript

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I simply will not spend time tailoring a nascent or even mature product to 0.0001% or whatever minscule percentage of the population turns off JS. If you turn off JS, you get a blank screen. Why should I accommodate your cohort? Why write unit tests for someone who takes a standardish client with above 1% market share and does something completely unstandard with it?

> For the same reason we build features in websites that work for blind people (aria tags everywhere), disabled people (accessible buttons), people who speak different languages (i18n), VIM users (GMail keyboard shortcuts), etc. From a comment below.

I use Vimium in Chrome to be able to use the keyboard to navigate web pages. Gmail in particular conflicts with this by implementing its own keyboard shortcuts that interfere with my workflow.

Some people may like it, but I'm just saying that it's not a feature that isn't disliked by some people.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#389
post #337
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except the schillings usually are days. And it might take JS to build the requirements in 10 days. 'Support the 0.1% of people without javascript' usually doesn't make it beyond the bottom of the backlog.

This reasoning i.e. "supporting" people who are not using Javascript make little sense. It is the Javascript and website complexity, the embellishment of data with needless garbage, that necessitates "support" i.e. work for developers. It creates more work. Serving text without embellishment requires less work, not more. At some time or place in every website development project, data exists in plain text or some oth…

That argument only makes sense for informational websites with heavy focus on textual data. But the article looks at web apps like google maps. Good luck creating a static version of that.

+ I'm not saying 99.99% WANTS javascript, I'm saying 99.99% HAS javascript. And the economics of supporting the other 0.01% often don't add up.

So people can arrogantly claim here: 'If your site requires javascript, I don't want to use it'. But it's much more the website owner saying: 'If your browser doesn't support javascript, I don't want you as a user'. Since it probably costs more to have you as a customer then I will make out of it.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#390
post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what a ludicrous analogy. engineering is an applied science, not a purely theoretical one where you can remove the human impact of your decisions from the equation. comments like this are a prime example of why engineers need to take more liberal arts classes

I agree with you about liberal arts and have the college transcripts to prove it. Unfortunately, your HN comments have been frequently uncivil and/or unsubstantive. Would you please not post like that? It's just what we're trying to avoid here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

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