Live data from Hacker News

My Arch Linux Setup with Plasma 5

sadanand-singh.github.io

71–78 of 78 posts

Re: My Arch Linux Setup with Plasma 5

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I thought the same thing but I set up arch on my main machine a couple of months ago and apart from the setup pain, it has been a much smaller hassle than I anticipated. It's pretty stable, didn't have any breakage until now. I love it! As an Arch user of ~5-6 years, I do have some advice outside the obvious realm of "keep regular (working) backups" that can help minimize future headaches (not necessarily for you s…

One concern I've had with Arch was how they would handle the big C/C++ library ABI changes. It only seems to happen about once a decade, but when it does it is a giant pain. Last time this happened while I was using Debian testing you had to pin a ton of packages for many months while everything moved over to the new ABI. How does Arch manage these core library ABI changes?

Arch is currently transitioning to GCC 7 and OpenSSL 1.1.0 (yes, both).

The GCC transition is a straight up replacement of packages, gcc and those built with the new gcc. Some AUR packages may need to be rebuilt, but the community of users agrees in some measure that that's something a user of AUR must know already.

The OpenSSL transition is keeping both versions around for a while, shunting the older version from package `openssl` to `openssl-1.0`, which will eventually go away too.

I guess the GCC 6 to 7 transition was not a big deal, but that could be partly because Arch tries to stick with upstream code and doesn't add patches of its own much.

Re: My Arch Linux Setup with Plasma 5

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought the same thing but I set up arch on my main machine a couple of months ago and apart from the setup pain, it has been a much smaller hassle than I anticipated. It's pretty stable, didn't have any breakage until now. I love it! But I do admit the initial setup was pretty intense, I loved the learning experience. I'm also using Cinnamon, on Arch. It's quite clean and nice. :)

Yes, I remember once I needed to print something on my laptop and I realized I hadn't set up printing yet on my Arch system (a non-trivial process that requires at least 30 minutes of time reading the Wiki) because I hadn't printed anything in years. The thing I was printing was an important legal document for my startup, and it was very frustrating to my other founders that everyone on their Macs had already printed…

I agree Arch should not be used for mission critical stuff.

I have been in situations similar to yours. I run Arch, and I've had to deal with printers (and more exotic hardware) under urgency, I've had to connect to weird WiFi networks where the network admin was some guy who knew only how to click buttons and take screenshots, and I've absolutely had to figure out how to do things from a cli without internet access.

----

About the printing business: if you know you don't have something set up in Arch, and you know it will probably take a while to do it, and you don't want to spend that time ... you should definitely use something else for it while you can. This is without all the caveats of the general business of getting printers set-up and running on any OS.

About the intern: why would you even ask an intern to set up and use Arch when all they needed was a working Linux distro? That's just using the wrong tool for the job. It's almost like asking an intern to learn how to drive simply to travel to office every day.

About the network auth:

1. The GUI tool you used was the same as on every Linux distro: NetworkManager (or a NetworkManager client by you DE, like KDE does).

2. If it was WPA2 Personal, you'd have just a password. If it was WPA2 Enterprise, you'd definitely have something more than just a password; and enterprise Wi-Fi is convoluted enough that it requires detailed steps even on Windows 7. The NetworkManager GUI never asks for a username when WPA2 Personal is selected (because that wouldn't make sense).

About your last issue:

1. NetworkManager is the network management software all Linux distros use with GUI.

2. NetworkManager now has a cli, but perhaps that wasn't the case then.

3. It is always wise for a system administrator to know their tools; or at the least, how to use their tools. `wpa_supplicant`'s manpages could have told you what to do when you couldn't reach Arch Wiki.

----

And yes, Arch is a system that needs an admin to manage it. That is how it's designed and built. Look at the second entry in the official FAQ: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Frequently_asked_questi...

I'd pre-configured my Arch system for the day when I'd need to connect a printer to it. And when I needed it and I connected it and it worked, it worked. When it didn't, and it was urgent, I asked someone else to print using their system. This is a common scenario with Windows 7 too.

When a network posed me troubles, I have always debugged it and solved it.

When I needed to figure out how to do something on the cli without internet, I relied on the manpages and the `--help` outputs and my sysadmin knowledge in general.

And I'm okay with that, because it gives me the freedom to have my system my way and because I can do that.

When I'm asked by someone to pick a distro for them, if they do not want to manage their system to such low levels, I recommend Ubuntu. It's just a matter of picking the right tool for the job.

Re: My Arch Linux Setup with Plasma 5

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the detailed response. I just don't know myself. I'm sure me looking at the issue through the lens of my old ass perceptions (yea I'm old) is a factor. I read the guide in the article and other stuff online about Arch and it seems to involve a significant amount of manual work. I came from an era when there was no other option. You just had to do it. It seems to me that much of setting up Arch involves rea…

There's nothing wrong with preferences. It's why I don't care much for Debian-based distributions (Debian/Ubuntu make some weird choices, IMO, some for historical reasons and some because it's just the way they do things). Although I will counter that Arch is substantially less "manual work" than certain other popular distros, like Gentoo! Likewise, much of the Arch wiki centers on third party software--and sometimes…

Addendum: Just caught my typo above thanks to another poster. The above should read:

"OpenSSL bump from 1.0.2 to 1.1.x."

I apologize for having missed that.

Re: My Arch Linux Setup with Plasma 5

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One concern I've had with Arch was how they would handle the big C/C++ library ABI changes. It only seems to happen about once a decade, but when it does it is a giant pain. Last time this happened while I was using Debian testing you had to pin a ton of packages for many months while everything moved over to the new ABI. How does Arch manage these core library ABI changes?

Arch is currently transitioning to GCC 7 and OpenSSL 1.1.0 (yes, both). The GCC transition is a straight up replacement of packages, gcc and those built with the new gcc. Some AUR packages may need to be rebuilt, but the community of users agrees in some measure that that's something a user of AUR must know already. The OpenSSL transition is keeping both versions around for a while, shunting the older version from pa…

> The OpenSSL transition is keeping both versions around for a while, shunting the older version from package `openssl` to `openssl-1.0`, which will eventually go away too.

In my experience, this hasn't been a terribly unsettling transition and has gone quite smoothly except for a few individuals unlucky enough to update during a mirror turnover (or so I gathered from the forums as their problems often went away after updating again a short time later).

Mostly, insofar as OpenSSL 1.1.x is concerned vs. openssl-1.0, I've only had problems with projects that make heavy use of cmake as there's no easy workaround outside either a) creating/linking a few directories that cmake expects to find OpenSSL 1.0 in, or b) (my preferred approach because it avoids polluting the file system) patching the FindOpenSSL macro. But, I don't think this is a problem Arch needs to resolve as this is most certainly an upstream issue and only affects AUR packages (which, as you said, users of the AUR should already have some experience in this area anyway!).

You're absolutely spot on with that last statement--one of the reasons I love Arch is because package maintainers keep things as close to upstream as possible and GCC updates have largely been painless. Certainly more so than I recall under Gentoo.

Now that I think about it, the few pain points I've encountered with less frequently updated Arch installations have almost always involved multiple incompatible changes to core/filesystem layered with pacman updates. There are others, sure, but those ones seem to stick out in my mind the most. It's better to avoid them entirely by updating regularly, of course, but it happens.

Re: My Arch Linux Setup with Plasma 5

#75
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's profoundly incorrect: full disk encryption provides no guarantees that your system has not been tampered with. I don't see how that would even be possible.

If the machine is turned off and only the home directory is encrypted, I am at liberty to patch the kernel or binaries, update your package manager or dns settings, or anything in between really. I can do none of that with FDE (assuming I don't already know the key of course). What am I missing here?

It can't be turtles all the way down. If you encrypt /, then you're still not encrypting the kernel and I win. If you encrypt the kernel, then you're still not encrypting GRUB and I win.

There's no way to prevent anyone from tampering with your system, or even to make any tampering evident. The best you can do is a cost-benefit analysis and risk analysis of the different options.

Re: My Arch Linux Setup with Plasma 5

#76
For me the rolling release model of Arch makes it not the most suitable distro for development, lately I had to fight with the openssl upgrade to 1.1.0 because some rust libs I used no longer worked. Downgrading is not an option for pacman, so I had to resort to compiling on docker containers and that's not the most comfortable dev environment. I'm gonna migrate to NixOS or GuixSD this weekend, the package managers they have are really a breakthrough to package management.

Re: My Arch Linux Setup with Plasma 5

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I remember once I needed to print something on my laptop and I realized I hadn't set up printing yet on my Arch system (a non-trivial process that requires at least 30 minutes of time reading the Wiki) because I hadn't printed anything in years. The thing I was printing was an important legal document for my startup, and it was very frustrating to my other founders that everyone on their Macs had already printed…

I agree Arch should not be used for mission critical stuff. I have been in situations similar to yours. I run Arch, and I've had to deal with printers (and more exotic hardware) under urgency, I've had to connect to weird WiFi networks where the network admin was some guy who knew only how to click buttons and take screenshots, and I've absolutely had to figure out how to do things from a cli without internet access.…

At the time, pacman was easiest way to install the software we were using -- the field we were working with was brand new.

Re: My Arch Linux Setup with Plasma 5

#78
post #2

Why on God's green Earth would you pollute Arch with KDE?! :)

:) well the nice thing about Arch is that Arch doesn't tell you what you can and can't install on your system...that is pretty much entirely up to the user.

For most components, that's true. But trying to use Arch without systemd can be difficult.
Post reply on HN