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3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

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Re: 3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

#21

Post by moskie »

empath75 wrote: post #14

It's sort of criminal that they're even allowed to label bean juice as milk. Im not 100% convinced of the necessity of drinking milk or that height is particularly a good proxy for health as a metric. But vegans should be under no illusions that almond milk or soy milk is any kind of milk substitute. And if they're giving it to infants instead of breastfeeding or formula, it's borderline neglect. I think that there a…

> But vegans should be under no illusions that almond milk or soy milk is any kind of milk substitute.

When it comes to feeding infants, sure, but my usage of soy milk as an adult is definitely as a substitute for milk. I use it in virtually all the places cow's milk is typically used: in my cereal, coffee, mixed with chocolate syrup, in most recipes that call for milk.... No need to get so up in arms about call things like soy milk a "milk" drink/substitute. In the vast majority of cases, it functions exactly the same.

Re: 3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

#22

Post by cjbprime »

Your regular reminder that it's almost never worth it to pay attention to one single study, because of publication bias, lack of multiple hypothesis correction, and the many other ways for a study -- even one performed to best practices -- to be incorrect.

Wait for the meta-study, especially if the result is at all topical or exciting.

Re: 3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

#23

Post by [deleted] »

llovan wrote: post #11

The average height has been increasing steadily all over the world for the last century or so, perhaps since industrialization. Though malnourishment played a part in not letting people reach their genetic potential in height, there is evidence linking taller heights with disease such as cancer and shorter lifespans. I do not think it has been conclusively proven that taller statures are desirable. I would think adeq…

[deleted]

Re: 3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

#24

Post by ThrustVectoring »

marricks wrote: post #3

Is shorter always bad? With all the growth hormones given to cows it'd make sense some would go through to the milk and likely affect kids, wouldn't really be a good thing...

Yeah. All else equal, I'd rather have a taller child. If I could have invested $1M in the S&P 500 at birth or be seven feet tall, I'd take the height.

Re: 3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

#25

Post by horsecaptin »

llovan wrote: post #11

The average height has been increasing steadily all over the world for the last century or so, perhaps since industrialization. Though malnourishment played a part in not letting people reach their genetic potential in height, there is evidence linking taller heights with disease such as cancer and shorter lifespans. I do not think it has been conclusively proven that taller statures are desirable. I would think adeq…

I agree that height does not necessarily mean that an individual will be stronger / fitter / longer living. In-fact, being tall may play against these.

That said, no girl I've ever met has ever said, "wow, I really prefer to date short men". Perhaps some of them have said, "he's too tall", but most of them prefer tall men.

Most men that I know tend to prefer women shorter than them. And yes, some of them have said, "she's too short".

So, while more height in men may be inversely correlated to health, it is certainly desired among the multi-ethnic multi-economic cross-section of people with whom the topic of height has come up in conversation.

Re: 3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

#26

Post by maxerickson »

Swizec wrote: post #12
schoen wrote: post #2

Some non-dairy milks are labeled "not a substitute for infant formula". This is important because infants fed them in place of formula or breast milk have suffered severe malnutrition and even died. Babies' and small children's nutritional requirements are different from adults'. This study is looking at "children aged two to six" (ages at which formula or breast milk would no longer be necessary to sustain life), an…

> while apparently for particular purposes non-dairy milks are starting out at a disadvantage even if they have some health benefits in other ways It's almost like alternative milks have around 30 calories per cup and real milk has 160 calories. That's a huge difference because you're likely to give your child "a glass of milk", not ask them to drink 5 glasses because the alt milk has basically no nutritional value.…

The sweetened versions have more calories. (for the ones that are 30 calories/cup unsweetened, something like 60 calories per cup).

Cows milk also has quite a lot more protein than most alternative milks.

Re: 3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

#27

Post by wslh »

ovao wrote: post #13
wslh wrote: post #8

Take it anecdotically or not. My two daughters almost never consumed milk because of allergies and have an average height and will be taller than their past generations women.

I believe the only possible way to take that is anecdotally.

I don't think so. Have you read https://www.gwern.net ? Also scientific research is validated much later with different studies, including meta-analysis studies.

Re: 3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

#28

Post by wslh »

emmelaich wrote: post #18
wslh wrote: post #8

Take it anecdotically or not. My two daughters almost never consumed milk because of allergies and have an average height and will be taller than their past generations women.

Another anecdote ... my son has always been a big milk drinker and is taller than any relative in the last two generations (and well fed besides - he loves his broccoli!)

I love broccoli and had a lot of milk but my father is taller than me ;-)

Re: 3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

#29

Post by maxerickson »

empath75 wrote: post #14

It's sort of criminal that they're even allowed to label bean juice as milk. Im not 100% convinced of the necessity of drinking milk or that height is particularly a good proxy for health as a metric. But vegans should be under no illusions that almond milk or soy milk is any kind of milk substitute. And if they're giving it to infants instead of breastfeeding or formula, it's borderline neglect. I think that there a…

And if they're giving it to infants instead of breastfeeding or formula, it's borderline neglect.

Nothing borderline about it. Babies still die of malnutrition in developed countries, when it happens it is often from vegan diets.

I don't think that various vegetable derived products having "milk" in their names is the biggest part of the problem though.

Re: 3-year-olds consuming alternative milks were 1.5 cm shorter on average

#30

Post by llovan »

imron wrote: post #15
llovan wrote: post #11

The average height has been increasing steadily all over the world for the last century or so, perhaps since industrialization. Though malnourishment played a part in not letting people reach their genetic potential in height, there is evidence linking taller heights with disease such as cancer and shorter lifespans. I do not think it has been conclusively proven that taller statures are desirable. I would think adeq…

> I do not think it has been conclusively proven that taller statures are desirable Not conclusively proven but there have been studies done that suggest taller people earn more money [0]. Taller people are also generally considered more attractive. So there are at least 2 factors where taller people have an advantage in life. 0: http://www.businessinsider.com/tall-people-are-richer-and-su...

Yeah I've seen those but I was referring more to the potential health downsides not earnings possibilities: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/201...
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