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“Let her speak please”

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Re: “Let her speak please”

#641

Post by chris_wot »

humanrebar wrote: post #190
chris_wot wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't mean it doesn't bother her!

I'm assuming she isn't interested in marrying a sexist jerk. But, yes, there's plenty of room to be annoyed with ones' significant other. It's to be expected, really.

I don't think he's being intentionally sexist. In fact, I don't think he realises what he's doing at all!

I was actually making a general comment. In fact, I'm actually pretty interested in what Mika has to say, and frankly it's very rare she gets a word in edgeways...

It appears I've offended others with my observation. That's a pity, because I actually really like Joe Scarborough, one of the few pro-Republican commentators on air who makes reasonable sense and is able to put forward conservative stances in ways I can grapple with. Just my 2c

Re: “Let her speak please”

#642

Post by chris_wot »

VeejayRampay wrote: post #140
chris_wot wrote: post #13

Can someone please pass that note to Joe Scarborough also? He was interviewed by Colbert, and not once was this raised. Seriously, watch Morning Joe and he just will not let Mika Brzezinski speak, and you can see her suppressing her frustration. Scarborough doesn't even appear to know he's doing it, and Brzezinski seems to be powerless to stop him.

You do realize that show is scripted, yes? This is all a play, they're playing off each other and pretending like there's debate and he's being patronizing, when they're actually two faces of the same coin and engaged IRL.

I don't think that's correct, except the being engaged bit.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#643

Post by Ensorceled »

pokemongoaway wrote: post #558
Ensorceled wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You missed the point entirely. This thread is specifically and pointedly about men speaking over top women, especially when there is a power differential (panelist vs. moderator in this case). Not about the general problem of needing to speak up for yourself.

How is it that you get to decide what this is about by interpreting the article with a certain slant, and then use that slant to say he's not discussing actually 'your' point?

Slant? I read the Facebook post.

Curious, what did you think her original point was?

Re: “Let her speak please”

#644

Post by Godel_unicode »

lphnull wrote: post #591
jasonshen wrote: post #11

Edit: I watched the video. The moderator goes on and on and the "let her speak please" sounds very polite. This is a painfully frustrating reminder that women get talked over by men. It's one thing to have one panelist talk over another, but to have the moderator, who is explicitly in charge of facilitating a panel discussion, be the one to drown out a panelist is just unacceptable. Yes, "not all men" do this, but th…

As a tiny, girly looking feminine man who crossdresses half the time, I have to say that everybody- male or female- is at risk for being "talked over" and not given a fair chance. That's just how the world works. You can be upset about it and say that people were unfair, or you can make yourself a better person by learning from others mistakes. The world would be a better place if people put less energy into being up…

As a large, athletic, deeply voiced man I agree with your sentiment.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#645

Post by ryanmarsh »

jgalt212 wrote: post #620
ryanmarsh wrote: post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So men just interrupt more in general, not against women specifically I'll buy that. If this disproportionately affects women then I'll buy that too. I don't buy that men interrupt women specifically out of some sort of bias. My experience has been that the more passionate conversationalists among us will interrupt anyone who will let them.

> passionate conversationalists a nice way of saying workplace bullies.

Sometimes men care too.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#646

Post by exodust »

ivraatiems wrote: post #232
exodust wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The advice you're giving, frankly, is part of the problem. No. It's your paranoid prophesy that is frankly the problem. You're labelling women as victims before any crime has happened. Your confirmation bias has everything worked out ahead of time, including the derogatory remarks awaiting any woman who dares cross the line you've drawn in red paint. Nobody would label the scientist on the panel as pushy or inappro…

> You're labelling women as victims before any crime has happened. Your confirmation bias has everything worked out ahead of time, including the derogatory remarks awaiting any woman who dares cross the line you've drawn in red paint. Nobody's accusing anybody of any "crime." I don't understand why you're stepping up the rhetoric like this. It's not a war, it's not about punishing anyone, it's about correcting social…

The woman who said "let her talk" indeed sounded like she meant "I want to hear from her". Its a shame she felt the need to follow that up with a facebook soapbox piece you are clearly sympathetic to.

I am not symapthetic, and have no interest in extending a gesture of patronising charity for the sake of the greater cause - women's rights and equality. An important cause yes, but that isnt an automatic qualification to piggy back on anything that even might possibly be related to that topic.

The expression "mansplaining" is a trashy and sexist term, and when used falsely to condemn someone's likely innocent mistake is highly disrespectful. You want empathy and understanding of a viewpoint stemming from gender put-downs and unfounded accusations of sexism?

People need to hold in their sexism trigger finger for when it actually happens, not when some vague maybe and could-be circumstance provides an excuse to let out a wave of built up disapproval.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#647

Post by dando »

gpawl wrote: post #522
ryanmarsh wrote: post #473

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get talked over by people. I see this all the time and it's generally sexless. As a consultant I've helped at least 100 teams have crucial conversations across tens of businesses. I don't get the constant refrain that this is a male vs. female thing.

Your anecdote of your fuzzy memory is not research. When measurements are taken, there is a clear pattern: https://www.forbes.com/sites/womensmedia/2017/01/03/gal-inte... https://hbr.org/2017/04/female-supreme-court-justices-are-in... http://nytlive.nytimes.com/womenintheworld/2015/03/19/google...

Even if there is a "clear pattern", that doesn't mean every instance of a man talking over woman is sexism. Not even close.

So even if you can prove there is a pattern, it doesn't invalidate his statement that "it's generally sexless"

Re: “Let her speak please”

#648

Post by overgard »

pron wrote: post #564
overgard wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly this is a horrible philosophy -- the notion that anything can be sexist if someone chooses to be offended. You talk about an imbalance of power, but isn't the ability to recontextualize any bad behavior as sexist just because of the participants involved a huge source of power in of itself?

> Honestly this is a horrible philosophy -- the notion that anything can be sexist if someone chooses to be offended. But it's the exact opposite. Being offended has nothing to do with sexism. Sexism is an objective situation of an unequal distribution of power. Sexism would exist even if everyone in the world thought it was great, and no one was ever offended in the slightest. > but isn't the ability to recontextual…

In this context all we really know is that the moderator was rude, and the person he was rude to was a woman. We have no way of knowing for certain if he acted that way because of her gender. Saying this is sexism is pure speculation.

To brand someone as sexist is very damaging to their reputation. That women in general suffer from a power imbalance is no excuse for attacking a persons reputation with no strong evidence.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#649

Post by okreallywtf »

weberc2 wrote: post #598
okreallywtf wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think females are also known to under-report as well but its hard to know who under reports more. I meant it more as an analogy than anything else. I've seen the "but what about X" argument being used a lot lately where X and Y are the same issue that affect different groups and both are deserving of attention but one is more (maybe much more) prevalent than the other. As a means to derail a discussion of Y someone…

Females are also known to underreport, but we know that males underreport to a greater degree (or so I've read in several academic papers). > I meant it more as an analogy than anything else. I understand, and my post was a digression, but I felt it important because I was shocked when I learned the severity of the problem.

I agree, it needs to be talked about and I would say most of the stigma comes from other men (though surely not all).

Re: “Let her speak please”

#650

Post by overgard »

pron wrote: post #614
Zikes wrote: post #590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but clearly, the imbalance of power between men and women is so large, that there is still no question about which side has more power. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, as of 2006 only 3.6% of alimony recipients were men. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alimony#History Mothers are granted custody in ~80% of cases and are the recipients of 94% of child support dollars paid: https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2011/08/15…

Bad and unfair things happen to everyone. But power is a well-studied, and rather specific concept[1], and there's really no question here. None of the things you mentioned change anything about the very clear imbalance of power. Bill Gates may suffer from an ingrown toenail, but that has little to do with the fact that he's richer than you. Also, men are sexist, as are women. Being sexist is not being bad; it's bein…

The gp just gave evidence of structural sexism against a group. It just happened to be men. Saying that "life is unfair" when one group suffers, while rushing to the defense of the other group is hypocrisy and clearly a double standard.
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