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“Let her speak please”

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Re: “Let her speak please”

#621

Post by ethbro »

devmunchies wrote: post #509
ethbro wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it matter? I'd put the emphasis on the outcome: women being able to express their opinions and contribute to the conversation / problem. Being interrupted (while speaking less in the first place) seems counterproductive to that end.

So its an argument between equal opportunity and equal outcome. It sounds like people want to shame men so as to gain an equal outcome. Is there a better solution? I'm being serious. (At the very least, we don't need to accuse men of being sexist if is proven to be a biological tendency—we should call a spade a spade)

How is sexism that's biologically based not sexism? Just like biologically based racism (not my race) still being racist?

The equal outcome is men and women both being given equal and fair opportunities to express their viewpoints.

If this isn't the case because {reason}, then to me that's justification enough to attempt to redress the issue through modified behavior.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#622

Post by weberc2 »

masondixon wrote: post #612
weberc2 wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because our society has advanced a lot in the last fifty years, but some people want to profit from the appearance of "fighting injustice" or perhaps they feel they need some sort of moral consolation?

I really want to understand the internal monologue of these people. There is some culmination of factors that must result in this need to fight injustice. It just feels like they have some chip on their shoulder from adolescents. Being bullied at school. Having gone through a bad breakup. Something like that.

I agree. I think social justice became an identity or a tribe, and each w̵a̵r̵r̵i̵o̵r̵ person in the tribe joined for their own particular mix of reasons (some were probably legitimately the victims of a prejudice and were overcome with hate for their aggressor and his/her racial/gender/etc group, others may have simply made friends with SJ-types in their formative years and taken on the identity, etc). Once an ideology becomes tribal, it's more or less impervious to rational thought. I think this is probably the case and not just wanton psycho-analysis because it mirrors social psychological work done about politics generally.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#623

Post by jjtheblunt »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #473
jasonshen wrote: post #11

Edit: I watched the video. The moderator goes on and on and the "let her speak please" sounds very polite. This is a painfully frustrating reminder that women get talked over by men. It's one thing to have one panelist talk over another, but to have the moderator, who is explicitly in charge of facilitating a panel discussion, be the one to drown out a panelist is just unacceptable. Yes, "not all men" do this, but th…

People get talked over by people. I see this all the time and it's generally sexless. As a consultant I've helped at least 100 teams have crucial conversations across tens of businesses. I don't get the constant refrain that this is a male vs. female thing.

what you describe matches my observations too: i see it happen in both directions, with the most pushy example being, in what i see, certain women talking over everyone regardless of gender. it's just a personality trait, perhaps?

Re: “Let her speak please”

#624

Post by dang »

oh_sigh wrote: post #574
dang wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why are you mansplaining Please don't troll here. On HN, if you have a substantive point, make it thoughtfully; otherwise please don't post.

How is it trolling? Mansplaining is in the OED and I explained myself beyond just throwing the term out. Is it because I'm mirroring the supposed victims own words and not jumping on the sexism train, which goes against the received wisdom of this forum?

Now you're meta-trolling. If you want to comment on this site, you need to do so substantively and thoughtfully. If you continue to violate that rule, we're going to ban your account.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#625

Post by syngrog66 »

ryanmarsh wrote: post #473
jasonshen wrote: post #11

Edit: I watched the video. The moderator goes on and on and the "let her speak please" sounds very polite. This is a painfully frustrating reminder that women get talked over by men. It's one thing to have one panelist talk over another, but to have the moderator, who is explicitly in charge of facilitating a panel discussion, be the one to drown out a panelist is just unacceptable. Yes, "not all men" do this, but th…

People get talked over by people. I see this all the time and it's generally sexless. As a consultant I've helped at least 100 teams have crucial conversations across tens of businesses. I don't get the constant refrain that this is a male vs. female thing.

thank you for saying this, and be willing to be downvoted by the PC hivemind. I've personally long given up trying to share a non-PC-orthodox view here on this topic

Re: “Let her speak please”

#626

Post by cr0sh »

openasocket wrote: post #219

I'm suprised no one has brought up that men talking over women is a well-studied phenomenon in childhood and adolescence. Girls tend to contribute less to discussions or conversations in mixed gender settings than they do in single-gender settings. My parents even noticed it when my brother and I moved out of the house, and suddenly my little sister was a lot more talkative at the dinner table. The exact mechanism or…

> The exact mechanism or reason for this is not well understood.

I have nothing to back this up, but my personal opinion is that the reason is our patriarchal society.

It permeates our shared culture to such an extent, that most people don't see it. Women and girls even participate in it, and use it to perpetuate it. It is everywhere. Literally everywhere. From the moment of birth to the moment of death, you are immersed in it. It's not really a wonder that children would pick it up quickly and act accordingly.

If you ever are able to glimpse it - you likely won't be able to unsee it. It becomes blindingly obvious.

You and others may or may not agree with me, so I'll just leave this here:

https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/800/1*yiv4glZWr2rzS2BMOo...

Re: “Let her speak please”

#627

Post by andrepd »

alttab wrote: post #556
croon wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you watch the rest of the video you will find the moderator imposes himself and cuts off the panellists and talks over them multiple times, seemingly regardless of gender. Honest question: Did you watch the rest of the video? I did and completely disagree with your assessment.

If you both watched it, we could simply count the number of interruptions and see if she was interrupted statistically significantly more. There's an objective answer and opinions don't really count here.

To be completely fair, it's not so simple. Opinions may differ in what constitutes an interruption, what's the threshold for considering someone tried to speak up and was cut off, about whether the attitude towards women was more forceful than towards men, etc. It's difficult to quantify these things.

Re: “Let her speak please”

#628

Post by oculusthrift »

jlebar wrote: post #369
Houshalter wrote: post #315

I have a theory that women are less likely to be, I guess the word would be "assertive", than men. That is a stereotype, but sometimes there's truth in stereotypes. I mean I recall studies that women are less likely to ask for raises or are worse at haggling. So if a person is speaking over you and rambling on, perhaps a man is more likely to speak up or butt in at the first opportunity. The quote in the top comment…

> I have a theory that women are less likely to be, I guess the word would be "assertive", than men. If this has been your experience, I'd encourage you to consider why that might be the case. Here's one possibility: Perhaps in our culture, assertive women are treated worse than assertive men.

yeah or they don't have testosterone or any form of latent aggression built in, which is required for assertiveness

Re: “Let her speak please”

#629

Post by [deleted] »

obstacle1 wrote: post #23

What's really interesting is that the author only became 'boiling' with rage when this socially-unaware moderator talked over the woman on the panel, not when he talked over the other men. This kind of behavior is extremely common in STEM, and happens to everyone. If you don't talk with confidence, purpose, and animation, you're going to get talked over by the alpha nerd of the group. Man, woman, or purple elephant.…

[deleted]

Re: “Let her speak please”

#630

Post by travmatt »

odbol_ wrote: post #557
travmatt wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's magical sexism. Everyone agrees in the abstract that sexism must exist, but there are no actual incidents that can be positively attributed to sexism.

"No actual incidents" Have you been living under a rock? There are more than enough examples. Here's just a few examples documenting the sexism in science: http://www.nature.com/news/gender-imbalance-in-science-journ... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/speaking-of-science/wp/2...

Whoosh
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