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Oldest Fossils of Homo Sapiens Found in Morocco

nytimes.com

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Re: Oldest Fossils of Homo Sapiens Found in Morocco

#31

Post by abakker »

nerdponx wrote: post #21
apeace wrote: post #18

> Since 2004, Dr. Hublin and his colleagues have been working through layers of rocks on a desert hillside at Jebel Irhoud. I have so much respect for archeologists. Spending over a decade in one spot, literally on hands and knees, digging and meticulously sifting through anything that is found, is to me the epitome of dedication to a craft. But another part of me thinks: there must be a better way! I know that exped…

That might be an interesting project. Deep learning + a headset camera thing.

Small observation: I worked on a dinosaur dig in Montana for 2 summers as a teen. a major problem was not identification of the bones in our case, but the fragility of the bones we were digging. Maybe 50% of our time was flaking rock away slowly with a an icepick, sweeping up the crushed rock, putting it in a bucket, and moving the crushed rock to a tailings pile. Each dedicated quadrant of the dig had its own tailings pile (1x1x1M of rock had its own pile) in case a pice of fragment was lost.

I know that low cost survey Lidar will really help, and that RTK GPS is also improving things. On larger digs, documentation with drones is also likely to produce better incremental tracking of progress. But, for this to be better, improving the actual digging is still a big unsolved problem.

EDIT: the other 50% of our time was: 40% reassembling bones with superglue in an air conditioned room. (pleasant for the temperature, but maddeningly frustrating work)

10% dig notation, journaling, discussion, planning, survey, etc.

Re: Oldest Fossils of Homo Sapiens Found in Morocco

#32

Post by kyberias »

apeace wrote: post #18

> Since 2004, Dr. Hublin and his colleagues have been working through layers of rocks on a desert hillside at Jebel Irhoud. I have so much respect for archeologists. Spending over a decade in one spot, literally on hands and knees, digging and meticulously sifting through anything that is found, is to me the epitome of dedication to a craft. But another part of me thinks: there must be a better way! I know that exped…

Paleontologists in this case.

Re: Oldest Fossils of Homo Sapiens Found in Morocco

#33

Post by djkrudy »

gnaritas wrote: post #10
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #2

The clock is "reset" on these types of things so frequently that I can help wondering why we speak so confidently about the origins of our species, and how long we've been here, and ultimately where we came from on this earth.

> The clock is "reset" on these types of things so frequently It really isn't; this doesn't change anything, we previously knew we were at least 200k years old, that fact is still true. We now know we're at least 300k years old, that fact will also always remain true. What's at fault is your understanding of what science is saying rather than what it's actually saying. > that I can help wondering why we speak so conf…

But seriously, what the heck makes more current information better? We aren't talking about significant technological advancements in the last 30 years in dating. What about releasing the click bait news story when a date is corroborated by a new piece of evidence, instead of every time some new find is dated we change the scientifically accepted just to the new number. gnaritas, its hilarious how you ask a very legitimate question, and then the responses are all "Isn't it great how the scientific method allows us to blatantly...." Instead of a response like "Oh...why the heck did we say we had so much confidence before" Regardless of what commenters say, the truth is that yes, without corroboration or quantifiable changes in technology, there is NO VALIDITY in saying that the newest number is the best number. It's another data point, and more importantly its another data point to prove that its stupid to so quickly decide that once you find something in 1 hole in 1 location, that artifact MUST be the beginning of an era!

Re: Oldest Fossils of Homo Sapiens Found in Morocco

#34

Post by roywiggins »

jansho wrote: post #16
camus2 wrote: post #7

But that's what exciting about science. It doesn't claim to come with ready made answers about our surroundings, humans discover things on their own. Sometimes humans get things wrong, and there is no shame in being wrong with science, it's part of the process, unlike "other domains" where people can or will never admin they are wrong, while still using the product of science every day, in contradiction to their own…

I don't know, the inability to admit being wrong is a human trait and can apply to anyone, including scientists and believers. Why does everyone think that there's only two "origin" stories and they're both mutually exclusive? I believe in evolution, and I'm a monotheist. I don't reach this conclusion very easily. Why not evolution as God's* way of creating things. *I hesitate to use this word because of the baggage…

The current Pope is cool with evolution. I think this is a common view, especially among religious scientists. Only some people think evolution is incompatible with divine creation.

Re: Oldest Fossils of Homo Sapiens Found in Morocco

#35

Post by gvd »

apeace wrote: post #18

> Since 2004, Dr. Hublin and his colleagues have been working through layers of rocks on a desert hillside at Jebel Irhoud. I have so much respect for archeologists. Spending over a decade in one spot, literally on hands and knees, digging and meticulously sifting through anything that is found, is to me the epitome of dedication to a craft. But another part of me thinks: there must be a better way! I know that exped…

It's called post docs

Re: Oldest Fossils of Homo Sapiens Found in Morocco

#37

Post by __jal »

nether wrote: post #3
matt_wulfeck wrote: post #2

The clock is "reset" on these types of things so frequently that I can help wondering why we speak so confidently about the origins of our species, and how long we've been here, and ultimately where we came from on this earth.

We live in a computer simulation.

Then I want my quarter back. The pacing of this game sucks, over a third of the game-clock is mostly grinding, another third is spent on hallucinating nonsense, and the "plot" seems like it is made up as it goes along.

And don't get me started on some of the NPCs...

Re: Oldest Fossils of Homo Sapiens Found in Morocco

#38

Post by jansho »

nkrisc wrote: post #28
jansho wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know, the inability to admit being wrong is a human trait and can apply to anyone, including scientists and believers. Why does everyone think that there's only two "origin" stories and they're both mutually exclusive? I believe in evolution, and I'm a monotheist. I don't reach this conclusion very easily. Why not evolution as God's* way of creating things. *I hesitate to use this word because of the baggage…

Why not evolution as "God's" way of creating things? Well, why not anything? You can posit anything you want, can you test it? Is there evidence to support it? Why monotheist? How do you know for certain there aren't more gods? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Can you test it? Could you admit your belief in monotheism could possibly be mistaken? We can ask "why not anything?" all day and not get anywhere so it'…

Well,

"Why not" is one way to keep an open mind. Why not this world in a multiverse. Why not this world in a simulation. Why not a simulation within a simulation. Why not a programmer who wrote the code for this world - and how is this any stranger than our other what ifs.

We're human, we don't just operate on facts - we rely on educated assumptions that we make, some of which may be strong enough to translate into belief. This may be driven by evidence, or just our humanly intuition and experiences.

But this is also human: The beauty of science is that it adapts as new evidence is revealed - someone here said this earlier. [No final answer] but rather based on the current evidence, an answer can be formulated that is consistent with the evidence available at that time.

It's human because it depends on our perspective; where we are in time, whether we find the truths (evidence) or not, and whether we are capable of perceiving all truths. Science is continually evolving in our minds - or more accurately, in the collective minds over time. Can the great jigsaw puzzle ever be solved? That's not the aim of science, as it is proud to point out, but it argues that whatever picture we come up with, it's justified as long as it's based on the current collection of evidence - this is a philosophy.

And I'm personally not satisfied with this, as a way of life. Why don't I deserve the truth in its entirety, in my lifetime? You would ask, why do I even question whether I deserve or not? I guess it's a human thing. But for me, as a person, I intuit closest to monotheism. Monotheism provides a framework where anything is possible, but bound by the belief in the Great Programmer who can do whatever he wants. It can work for anyone, regardless of their time and place; and for me as a person fortunate to live in an advanced age, I can accept evolution, because I think it's pretty robust and who am I to question how he creates the world. This for me is more liberating than having to accept whatever picture current evidence is showing - actually, I look forward to witness more development. It's also quite a comfortable position to be in; if science does show that we live in a simulation, that's OK, if it shows that we live in a multiverse, that's cool too.

Re: Oldest Fossils of Homo Sapiens Found in Morocco

#39

Post by Myrmornis »

jansho wrote: post #38
nkrisc wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not evolution as "God's" way of creating things? Well, why not anything? You can posit anything you want, can you test it? Is there evidence to support it? Why monotheist? How do you know for certain there aren't more gods? How did you arrive at that conclusion? Can you test it? Could you admit your belief in monotheism could possibly be mistaken? We can ask "why not anything?" all day and not get anywhere so it'…

Well, "Why not" is one way to keep an open mind. Why not this world in a multiverse. Why not this world in a simulation. Why not a simulation within a simulation. Why not a programmer who wrote the code for this world - and how is this any stranger than our other what ifs. We're human, we don't just operate on facts - we rely on educated assumptions that we make, some of which may be strong enough to translate into b…

The thing is it's just not very interesting what you "intuit". You're free to do it, but it's of no consequence. Some things that are interesting are (1) observations of reality that allow us to choose among competing hypotheses for how reality works and what has happened in reality, and (2) such testable hypotheses.

Re: Oldest Fossils of Homo Sapiens Found in Morocco

#40

Post by skookumchuck »

matt_wulfeck wrote: post #2

The clock is "reset" on these types of things so frequently that I can help wondering why we speak so confidently about the origins of our species, and how long we've been here, and ultimately where we came from on this earth.

Fossils can only give a bound on the latest that a species appeared. The earliest bound is open to speculation and inference.
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