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Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

bbc.co.uk

121–130 of 147 posts

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ones we've never heard about, which would be the highest form of success?

that's certainly what they'd have you believe.

Perhaps, do you have certainty that that isn't the case though? You seem to, but based on what?

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#122
post #81
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no horse in this race, but you are not more logical than your brother. First of all, "conspiracy theory" is often taken to mean one of the tinfoil variety ("government and gay aliens experiment with mind control beams" style, or "immortality treatment hidden by pharma for the last 100 years in attempt to increase profits and for eugenic purposes"). But a "conspiracy" simply means an act of collusion done secre…

A conspiracy theory typically involves a pretty large group of people doing something big to deceive a massive group of people. Like a faked moon landing, a large false flag operation like 9/11, or a hillary clinton/democratic party death squad murdering leakers. Has anything like this ever happened in all of history? The whole snowden thing is the best example I can think of but I don't remember actually being surpr…

Just one famous example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

But of course, this will be dismissed, as will any other example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Want some more?

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=noam+chomsky

Spend a few hours there and then come back and tell me the image the US government portrays is highly consistent with its actual reality.

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#123
post #69
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I can elaborate. Standards are a set of procedures to cooperate and provide a certain level of minimum quality. For many single person hackers not having standards may result in much better quality, but for teams of people who do this because they need to pay rent the quality is always pointed towards the possible minimum, not maximum. Therefore standards usually improve the work of paid teams. But standards are…

The same argumentation is usually used to argue that people have to be in the office or they won't do work - it's wrong in that case, it is wrong in this case. People often do good work without being forced to.

If morale is high, people are motivated (like a nonprofit working for a praiseworthy cause) and there are other feedback mechanisms (like market forces in a startup) then you don't need your employers to be in an office, constantly monitored.

But none of that is true for the NSA.

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much crap as people give the civil servants in the US, I feel like our government does a pretty reasonable job at finding competent employees. I'm from Chicago, so I definitely know how false that statement can be, but most other places in the world seem a lot more about who your parents were and who you know. I mean, the social stratification of the public/private school thing is somewhat baffling to me, as someo…

In Britain we have state schools, private schools and most expensive of all the old 'public schools', with a name almost designed to confuse. Most of them are ancient, and look a bit like Hogwarts. The real power of the schools is the 'old boys network'. When you need help getting into university, or beginning a career, there will be an old boy of your school you can write to for help. It seems daft in 2017, but ex p…

Yeah we really have a problem in recognising this centuries-long case of Stockholm Syndrome we suffer from.

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another example: Cameron. Led us into Brexit due to a massive miscalculation. Not a capable man but the Brits insist on picking leaders from a few thousand upper-class twits. His Chancellor and Eton chum was also a disaster.

Actually, by traditional definitions definitions Cameron is middle class, very upper middle class, but middle class. His father actually worked for a living and he probably had to buy his own furniture...

> His father actually worked for a living

And hid away significant amounts of cash in offshore tax havens

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another example: Cameron. Led us into Brexit due to a massive miscalculation. Not a capable man but the Brits insist on picking leaders from a few thousand upper-class twits. His Chancellor and Eton chum was also a disaster.

Americans don't seem to be doing much better in that regard. In fact, Trump has the worst education of any president in recent memory.

He graduated from Wharton which is one of the most prestigious business schools in the country.

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans don't seem to be doing much better in that regard. In fact, Trump has the worst education of any president in recent memory.

He graduated from Wharton which is one of the most prestigious business schools in the country.

Clearly their essay standards are not high. His use of English is dire. Recognise that schools give degrees to rich people.

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Generously, politics is The Thick of It . All kinds of scheming and malice, but none of it ever amounting to anything.

Same creator as Veep! I think he left Veep though and the show is becoming more cartoonish as a result.

I had no idea! That's reason enough for me to watch the first part of Veep then. The commercials had implied it was all cartoonish, but I should have known that's always the way of commercials.

Re: Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What success did the CIA have, ever? * Operation Ivy Bells (joint with USN and NSA, according to Wikipedia) * Stuxnet, possibly (unclear who was responsible for it, although it's generally thought to be joint US-Israeli effort)

The ones we've never heard about, which would be the highest form of success?

Perhaps, do you have certainty that that is the case though? You seem to, but based on what?
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