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A day without JavaScript

sonniesedge.co.uk

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Re: A day without JavaScript

#181

Post by eberkund »

madsbuch wrote: post #74
hobs wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Naw, I will keep running noscript and blocking script by default. If your site doesn't work, I don't care, I will go to a different one. I may be the minority now, and while there is some great use of js out there; most of it is bloated, slow, insecure, and often privacy destroying.

Not all websites not using JS are good: http://www.theworldsworstwebsiteever.com/ It is not a question about JavaScript or not. It is a question about well developed site.

At least that site loads quickly, doesn't call home with tracking info, or use up all of my expensive mobile bandwidth.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#183

Post by jerf »

mythrwy wrote: post #80
FLUX-YOU wrote: post #36

>Verdict: Cartography catastrophe. As much as I hate JavaScript, Google Maps gets a pass. I'm pretty sure the code behind it is thoroughly tested. We can just suck it up and turn JavaScript on for one of the most useful tools from the internet -- how hard is it to find something that whitelists domains to run JS anyway?

Google maps is a useful tool. It also had a habit of freezing an older (core2) laptop I was still using completely (with Firefox). Not just the browser, the whole OS. Had to power cycle. From time to time I'd forget and go back to Google maps were the cycle would repeat. Why was I still using a core2? Because it worked fine for almost everything else. Got a better second laptop and no more issues but still... there w…

It's probably WebGL-related. Some Firefox update seems to have fixed it for me recently but for quite a while I could only visit Google Maps in a brand new Firefox instance, because any attempt to use it in a well-aged process would crash firefox and emit graphics errors to dmesg. You may have a poorly-supported WebGL stack.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#184

Post by ptr_void »

linkmotif wrote: post #123
jaclaz wrote: post #120

If I may, it seems to me like there are several possible points of discussion: 1) Javascript is bad (vs. Javascript is good and variations thereof) 2) The use a lot of websites make of Javascript is overcomplex, gratuitious, uncalled for, intrusive, etc. 3) Sites should provide some (even minimal) functionality to people browsing them without Javascript #1 is largely a matter of personal opinions #2 is a known, unden…

I simply will not spend time tailoring a nascent or even mature product to 0.0001% or whatever minscule percentage of the population turns off JS. If you turn off JS, you get a blank screen. Why should I accommodate your cohort? Why write unit tests for someone who takes a standardish client with above 1% market share and does something completely unstandard with it?

That sound fine if you don't see any problems with showing a blank page for no-js which was supposed to displays only some texts/images/links.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#185

Post by awjr »

JepZ wrote: post #40
deanward81 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chrome 59 has a coverage tool built-in: https://developers.google.com/web/updates/2017/04/devtools-r...

Note: The color-coding is likely to change in future Chrome releases. I am a little surprised to find such an issue in Google software as it is a topic for first semester CS undergraduates ;-)

Seen the same on maps where green is a good route and red is a dangerous route. Switched to a blue -> light blue -> yellow -> orange -> red -> black scale with great success. I also believe chemistry uses blue to mean safe, not green.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#186

Post by boobsbr »

Liquid_Fire wrote: post #147
FLUX-YOU wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you do lazy loading with just HTML and CSS? You can load the map around the GPS coordinates you start on, but what if you go 20 miles north? How do you: A) figure out what are the new GPS coordinates that your viewport is looking at? And B) load the map within the viewport centered around the new GPS coordinates that you're looking at without ajax?

How would you "go 20 miles north" without JavaScript? The only sensible way would be by clicking a link, at which point you can load your new tiles.

I think OpenLayers did this a looooooong time ago.

Re: A day without JavaScript

#187

Post by jaclaz »

reitanqild wrote: post #168
jaclaz wrote: post #120

If I may, it seems to me like there are several possible points of discussion: 1) Javascript is bad (vs. Javascript is good and variations thereof) 2) The use a lot of websites make of Javascript is overcomplex, gratuitious, uncalled for, intrusive, etc. 3) Sites should provide some (even minimal) functionality to people browsing them without Javascript #1 is largely a matter of personal opinions #2 is a known, unden…

#1 is largely a matter of personal opinions This is wrong. It's amazing what Javascript can do now but it is only amazing because it was a retarded child with abusive parents (early browsers with wildly different implementations). That taken into account its amazing how far it has come. Sincerely, The frontend developer

>#1 is largely a matter of personal opinions

>This is wrong.

... in your opinion ...

Re: A day without JavaScript

#188

Post by sbov »

throwaway47861 wrote: post #159
linkmotif wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nonsense. This is definitively YAGNI. Good engineering is accommodating the greatest number of people with the resources you have in the least amount of time. Thinking about some abstract future scenario is categorically not good engineering.

You misspelled "good bean-counting". Good engineering requires you to cover for everything you can. Case in point: car seatbelts and airbags. Most people don't crash, right? But you aren't seeing the car manufacturers remove seatbelts and airbags.

Counter point: many cars aren't made to accommodate people as tall as a professional basketball player. Should I call them all bad (or at least not good) engineering?

Re: A day without JavaScript

#189

Post by howard941 »

stupidcar wrote: post #56

Looking forward to the author's follow up: "A day without a CPU". I am sick of lazy, profligate coders assuming that my computer is a von Neumann machine. And that just because I run their software, I am happy with it spending billions of my CPU cycles. How did we, as an industry, get to this point!?

And I was looking forward to the author finishing the slogan.

Because she left it up to the end user, how about "A day without JavaScript is like a day without a brain bleed"?

Re: A day without JavaScript

#190

Post by wruza »

zaphar wrote: post #93
godinaa wrote: post #29

One thing to consider is that at larger companies, we already have a difficult enough time testing all of our site with JavaScript enabled. Netflix building a version that works without JavaScript is like asking them to build a second website, especially from a QA perspective. When you look at your users and find that .5% of them are not running JavaScript, how do you justify spending the money for that few of people…

The reason is mobile. While only .5% of your users may be non Javascript users it's highly likely a significant percentage of your users are on mobile and not optimizing for progressive enhancement means a significantly degraded experience for all of them at various times when it fails to load or loads too slowly on a mobile connection.

I can stand slow loads, my phone has wifi after all. But js bloatware doesn't even allow me to scroll without seconds lags and random misclicks due to delayed event dispatch. Me turned js off not because of security concerns, but because most js-only sites are not scrollable beyond the first screen anyway.
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