Bugger: Maybe spies aren't very good at their jobs (2013)

Post by fao_ » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 10:00 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #89

Animats wrote: post #38

The output of the intelligence community is surprisingly low. One director of the NSA said, pre-9/11, that the whole organization generated about one important result every two days, one that was acted upon. The output of the US's domestic anti-terrorism effort is low for the resources invested. Most of the FBI's terrorism arrests are wannabes. They get a report of somebody mouthing off in a bar or mosque, crank up a…

So, after several wars, a couple of occupations, and tons of drone killings, and several trillions spent, all the stronger country in the world has managed was to "reduce the life expectancy" of major leaders in an third world backwater organisation? And help foster another similar enemy (ISIS) in the process? Hurray for effectiveness...

Post by tasuki » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 10:22 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #90

beagle3 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Being secret means there is no way you need to follow any standards or reviews. So your work ethic must not be very high. I don't know if you are right or wrong, but your statement sounds to me almost exactly like the one that I hear from religious zealots about atheists: "No one to answer to, therefore, no morals or ethics". There is a point of view from which this makes sense: Since there is no standard code, eve…

> I don't know if you are right or wrong, but your statement sounds to me almost exactly like the one that I hear from religious zealots about atheists: "No one to answer to, therefore, no morals or ethics". Which is not far from true. Morals one makes for themselves ("personal moral code") are not morals proper. They could just as well include that's its ok to kill kittens for fun (to give a silly example) -- that t…

Post by pizza » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 10:26 AM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #75

harry8 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick the team that finishes last in any sporting tournament and you hear more about their failures than their successes. The usual response is "Well what successes?" So it would seem to be with the CIA. The USA is hugely and massively successful and the CIA hides its disaster laden, failure after failure after horrendous outcome in secrecy. What success did the CIA have, ever? List their failures is so easy, I'll sta…

The story of the CIA's ongoing attempts to assassinate Castro reads like a slapstick comedy. Exploding cigars weren't even the silliest.

Post by wayn3 » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 10:36 AM UTC

ido wrote: post #96

TeMPOraL wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And so it seems that the currently effective terrorists attacks are the simplest ones, where you don't have to communicate or coordinate too much, or acquire some very unusual hardware (like explosives).

I wonder why a more common tactic isn't to simply ride a lot of busses until one of them is packed full while driving on the highway at full speed, then launching at the steering wheel to turn it basically any direction...Sounds like a pretty good chance of a pile up and lots of casualties, with no evidence the perpetrator is anything other than a normal passenger until it's too late.

Post by ido » Wed, Jun 07, 2017, 11:03 AM UTC

wayn3 wrote: post #97

ido wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder why a more common tactic isn't to simply ride a lot of busses until one of them is packed full while driving on the highway at full speed, then launching at the steering wheel to turn it basically any direction...Sounds like a pretty good chance of a pile up and lots of casualties, with no evidence the perpetrator is anything other than a normal passenger until it's too late.

because the goal of terrorism is awareness that there are evil assholes out there. they want to get caught. the casualties are a means to an end. if you just kill a bunch of people without anyone noticing it, nothings been gained in terms of effective terrorizing. terrorists want to be freddy krueger, not the rollercoaster from final destination.