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Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

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Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right though. If no one cared about extrajudicial gangs roving the streets murdering people, then it wouldn't be a problem! I know it sounds crazy. But the argument is sound. Let's put it this way. If everyone enjoyed extrajudicial gangs roving the streets murdering people, then it would be the opposite of a problem, wouldn't it? It would be a good thing. A necessary requirement for a problem to be a problem i…

The people being murdered would not enjoy it. Jesus. Please just stop, you're making a terrible argument.

But that wasn't your argument. In your argument no one cares. Even the people murdered.

The argument is sound.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#192

The article doesn't discuss the seniority of the fired employees. It's very hard to distinguish between scapegoating and actually working to fix the problem without that information. The problem with Uber isn't that some employees engage in sexual harassment. The problem is that there's a culture where sexual harassment isn't taken seriously, is tolerated if the perpetrators are "high performing" in other respects, a…

Wouldn't scapegoats file wrongful termination suits? Seems like a hell of a risk for illegitimate firings.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seems risky to hire a recent Uber employee at this point because bringing a toxic sexist into the company can inflict massive damage. Jesus. They are still people. You want to ostracize them from all society and prevent them from earning a living in their chosen career? 'Sexual harassment' is also a catch-all term that can encompass all kinds of actions. It could involve a clueless, inexperienced 20-something asking…

As a counter argument, complicit nazis who did not have a direct hand in the gas chambers are also people, but I doubt many people sympathize with their ability to live their lives normally after the war.

That Godwined quickly.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Seems risky to hire a recent Uber employee at this point because bringing a toxic sexist into the company can inflict massive damage. Jesus. They are still people. You want to ostracize them from all society and prevent them from earning a living in their chosen career? 'Sexual harassment' is also a catch-all term that can encompass all kinds of actions. It could involve a clueless, inexperienced 20-something asking…

As a counter argument, complicit nazis who did not have a direct hand in the gas chambers are also people, but I doubt many people sympathize with their ability to live their lives normally after the war.

Wow.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#195

The article doesn't discuss the seniority of the fired employees. It's very hard to distinguish between scapegoating and actually working to fix the problem without that information. The problem with Uber isn't that some employees engage in sexual harassment. The problem is that there's a culture where sexual harassment isn't taken seriously, is tolerated if the perpetrators are "high performing" in other respects, a…

Wouldn't scapegoats file wrongful termination suits? Seems like a hell of a risk for illegitimate firings.

I think the point OP is making is that you can fire 20 developers who are guilty of sexual harassment in some form but that even though they are guilty of that there should be people above them who essentially permitted their behavior and let it go unchecked who should also be fired. If you believe, like OP does, that the problem at Uber isn't individual cases of sexual harassment but an institutional passivity towards it then someone higher up really needs to be held accountable as well.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The natural follow-up question I have, is why don't you care?

That's a great question! I can't speak for everyone, but personally I don't think asking another adult if they want to have sex with you is morally wrong, even in the workplace. I think Americans are way too sensitive when it comes to sexuality. They repress it way too much. For reference, here is the accusation from the blog post: On my first official day rotating on the team, my new manager sent me a string of mess…

So you don't believe a superior (her manager) was wrong to insinuate a question of whether she would participate in his sexual life?

What if she didn't complain to HR, rebuffed his advances, and he subsequently decided to demote her position, or cut her pay, or even just move her desk out of an office and into a cubicle?

Would it be alright then?

Bringing sexual advances of any kind within a situation where there is a power difference (ie, manager vs lower-level employee) is a recipe for disaster within a company. Ideally, it has nothing to do with being too sensitive about things sexual. While I'll agree with you that, in many cases, American views and such on sexuality are messed up, in this case it is pretty clear why this kind of thing isn't tolerated.

Between individuals on the same "level" within a company is one thing (but still frowned upon and should generally be avoided); provided the advance is innocuous enough (ie - asking for a date, for instance), and it isn't repeated if rebuffed - and the individuals aren't in any power difference (C-level to management, management to lower-level employee, etc) - then it may be permissible.

But even here - if I was an owner of a company - I would want this to be verboten, for the simple reason that should the advance be rebuffed (or worse, things go great - then something happens and things fall apart) - it can lead to strife between employees (at a minimum, the two involved, but it could easily lead to "side taking") - which can harm productivity, cohesiveness, and ultimately the image of the company should it become public knowledge.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#197
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on where you are, it already has been. I recruited a friend recently who worked for Uber two jobs ago , and got objections at multiple levels (pulled them through because I knew they left Uber originally due to ethical objections and could speak to that directly). At this point having it in your job history needs to be addressed in your e-mail/cover letter.

What company is that so I know to avoid it? Sounds like you should get out of there.

Nah. I like working somewhere where ethics are taken seriously.

If you've been working for Uber for the last couple years (in an engineering role, and not visa-restricted), you need to have an answer for why you've remained someplace with so many serious ethical issues. And to be clear, "I needed to pay bills" is a real answer. But you need to have it and be willing to say it and defend it.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harassment encompasses a wide range of behaviors besides "asking another adult if they want to have sex with you," from _continuing to ask someone after they've turned you down_, to inappropriate touching, to quid-pro-quo, where career advancement, or good work assignments, are tied to sexual favors. These offers don't need to be explicit. It's difficult to do your best work when you don't feel safe in the workplace.…

But none of those other behaviors happened at Uber. It was literally someone asking another adult if they want to have sex. How childish are we to get upset over this? I can understand that feeling uncomfortable is not good. Lots of things make lots of people uncomfortable. Maybe the issue is that Americans become uncomfortable too easily? Or do not know how to handle feeling uncomfortable?

You being in a relationship with, or having sex with, your direct manager isn't (just) about discomfort, it's about unprofessionalism.

There are plenty of people to have sex or relationships with. You don't need to look to your direct employees.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#199
post #17

Does it make having "Uber" in your Career Profile look bad now? Even if someone wants to genuinely switch job within next few month out of Uber, It would raise eyebrows at next interview table. So Uber gonna have very mall attrition rate now. Every action has both side of coin. :)

Depending on where you are, it already has been. I recruited a friend recently who worked for Uber two jobs ago , and got objections at multiple levels (pulled them through because I knew they left Uber originally due to ethical objections and could speak to that directly). At this point having it in your job history needs to be addressed in your e-mail/cover letter.

Honestly, that sounds a little ridiculous and I wouldn't want to interview at the company you work for.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#200
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depending on where you are, it already has been. I recruited a friend recently who worked for Uber two jobs ago , and got objections at multiple levels (pulled them through because I knew they left Uber originally due to ethical objections and could speak to that directly). At this point having it in your job history needs to be addressed in your e-mail/cover letter.

What about a zenifits job? They had to BAN sex in the stairwells and drinking on the job

Having a problem and addressing it is different than having a problem and not addressing it for years (and yeah, I might ask an ex-Zenefits prospect how they felt about that). Is that unclear or difficult to understand?
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