Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills • Hacker News Board

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#291

Post by BearGoesChirp » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 6:50 PM UTC

cirgue wrote: post #269

Fricken wrote: post #205

The problem isn't critical thinking skills. You can get together any 5 jokers and ask them 'what's the best way to build a backyard patio?', and they'll all start stroking their chins. But when thinking critically interferes with some sort of strong emotion, or pre-conceived belief system, then forget it. It doesn't matter how much education you have, if entertaining a particular problem causes your amygdala to start…

> It doesn't matter how much education you have, if entertaining a particular problem causes your amygdala to start firing then your ability to think critically is out the window. Thinking critically is, by definition, the ability to not hold beliefs and opinions too deeply or too personally. This is a learnable skill, and is one facet of intellectual maturity.

In which case there are levels of it because there are issues that I can discuss to get an emotional response from almost anyone, especially if they think I'm arguing the issue for some reason other than to measure their emotional reaction.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#292

Post by eeZah7Ux » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 6:51 PM UTC

Bakary wrote: post #200

davidf18 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to read NYT, WaPo, WSJ, Economist, The Guardian, Breitbart, TimesofIsrael to get full information. NYT does a lot of censoring/under emphasizing of critical information. Of course there is also general reading that is important.

Interestingly, this is still a significantly limited echo chamber because these sources are all Anglo-centric, perhaps even the Times of Israel despite its location. Of course, this number of publications is already a large investment of time so I don't think it's reasonable to expect anyone to do more.

> because these sources are all Anglo-centric

They are also mainstream media. They provide a very narrow set of viewpoints.

One example? No newspaper publish material as significant as wikileaks.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#293

Post by eeZah7Ux » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 6:57 PM UTC

VLM wrote: post #144

closure wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Totally agree. It took me until several years out of school to realize that learning to think should have been a primary focus of university. 25 years on I am realizing that although it got me work and very decent pay I probably would have been much better off if the entire focus of university had been: 1. Learning how to think 2. Learning how to learn Really the focus of earlier schooling probably should have been:…

You can lead a horse to water but you can't ... Maybe 20 years ago taking night classes, the little liberal arts school I was at required a strange CS class theoretically oriented toward turning us into Excel technical experts in a semester. The REAL purpose of the class was to teach us how to learn how to learn, and learn how to think, about being handed an inadequately documented large technical system, then be res…

> You can lead a horse to water but you can't ...

Nonsense. Rational thinking can be thought directly and with methods.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#294

Post by ThomPete » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 7:01 PM UTC

3minus1 wrote: post #259

ThomPete wrote: post #131

Critical thinking is an important skill but I'd like to caution against this fixation on critical thinking thought in collage as some sort of beacon for society. Critical thinking is something people develop over the years and it starts early IMO. It's not just a 4 year course. It's a whole approach to the world around you. There are many critical thinkers in my experience outside of collage. And I don't see it a pro…

it took me a while trying to figure out what you meant by a collage of critical thinking.

Haha sorry about that. College of course :)

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#295

Post by eeZah7Ux » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 7:03 PM UTC

ergothus wrote: post #245

I remember the moment I unlocked the critical thinking I do have. It was 7th grade, and I was in a home-ec-like class. The day before we had learned how to order from mail order catalogues (showing my age there). This day the teacher passed out magazines, told us to pick an ad, and then find 5 ways it was misleading. Easy, right? Sex, money, Fame, these associations are in a bunch of ads, and everyone knows about the…

> I rejected any career that involved deliberate group manipulation, such as military, law enforcement, and legal

There's dozen of us. Kudos to you for your choice.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#296

Post by eeZah7Ux » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 7:06 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #205

The problem isn't critical thinking skills. You can get together any 5 jokers and ask them 'what's the best way to build a backyard patio?', and they'll all start stroking their chins. But when thinking critically interferes with some sort of strong emotion, or pre-conceived belief system, then forget it. It doesn't matter how much education you have, if entertaining a particular problem causes your amygdala to start…

> It doesn't matter how much education you have

Critical thinking, on the contrary, can be learned.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#297

Post by eeZah7Ux » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 7:18 PM UTC

bumblebeard wrote: post #63

Radim wrote: post #40

The mandatory Jordan Peterson link: "Why You Go To College" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ANtPUg37f04

I mostly agreed with what he was saying until he made that non-sequitur about "postmodern neo-Marxism." Universities are just giving the students what they want: a piece of paper that allows access to the job market. Most modern university students do not appear to want an education and neo-Marxism has nothing to do with that shift.

> Universities are just giving the students what they want: a piece of paper that allows access to the job market. Most modern university students do not appear to want an education

Please not generalize - this is not the case in some other countries.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#298

Post by sctb » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 7:27 PM UTC

lacampbell wrote: post #13

Communist professors are assaulting protestors with bikelocks. That really tells me all I need to know.

Would you please stop the drive-by generic ideological posts, like we've asked? We're after a more insightful discussion here.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#299

Post by eeZah7Ux » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 7:55 PM UTC

Sadly, nobody is pointing out how critical thinking is under constant attack in some western societies.

In a society based on entertainment and consumerism, emotions, desires and impulsive behaviors are [made] king. Nobody will try to sell you a car or some shoes by appealing to your rational side.

Analytical and level-headed people, e.g. academics, mathematicians, engineers are frequently depicted as uninteresting and boring in movies.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#300

Post by davidf18 » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 8:06 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #262

davidf18 wrote: post #195

Why wait for college to teach critical thinking skills? My father is a prof at a major university and we grew up discussing ideas, but high schools can teach critical thinking skills and problem solving. My high school was owned by the university and we did a lot of critical thinking. Jewish religious schools (Yeshivas) teach critical thinking skills by studying the Talmud [1]. A number of Yeshiva students take the L…

What law schools admit people without an (undergrad) college transcript?

Cardoza and at least one case of Columbia. I'd guess there are others.