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Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

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Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#131

Post by korzun »

sulam wrote: post #49
Shank wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have independently verified Susan Fowler's claim that her management chain didn't treat her case seriously. And by that I mean with a member of her management chain. Just to verify: are you an Uber employee, then?

Nope. I don't need to be to have a conversation. Of course, you could argue the person I was speaking with shouldn't have shared the information with me, but that's their concern.

> I have independently verified > Nope. I don't need to be to have a conversation

You can't publicly claim that you independently verified something and provide absolutely no information on that verification. You are not a Pope.

You started the conversation and chose to share that piece information.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#132

Post by macspoofing »

mavelikara wrote: post #29
macspoofing wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is that there's a culture where sexual harassment isn't taken seriously Is there? I've seen people claim this but I haven't seen any evidence for it. I know Susan Fowler's account is used frequently as basis for that statement and though I don't doubt her sincerity and truthfulness, you can't just extrapolate her experience to the entire (global) company.

You stated: I haven't seen any evidence for it. In the very next sentence you offer one such evidence, and then go on to discredit it with you can't just extrapolate .

>In the very next sentence you offer one such evidence, and then go on to discredit it with you can't just extrapolate.

Right. Because in the first case we're talking about a systemic problem applying to a global company of 12,000 possibly spanning all levels of management as well as its polices and mandates. In the second case we're talking about a person's singular experience - which I've never disputed. The former is a much stronger statement than the latter so you cannot use the latter to prove the former.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#133

Post by watwut »

randyrand wrote: post #118
watwut wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would do care whether other people think most people care? What makes this special? You are not posting similar comments under other articles.

That's an interesting question. I think there are pretty big bubbles that have formed in terms of ideology -- that clouds perception of the greater country/world/etc. For whatever reason, that annoys me. I don't really know why. Other subjects, generally, don't have an ideological bubble around them. Another user on this thread is saying I will get banned for my comment, which is a good illustration of how the proble…

There is a bubble of people who claim that harassment don't happen and the negative reaction to it is always unfair.

Then there is bubble of people who claim that serious harassment is all the time around to almist all women and most companies and non victims (e.g. males) don't care.

Which of these bubbles were you trying to prove wrong?

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#134

Post by ThrustVectoring »

kbenson wrote: post #102
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #6

The article doesn't discuss the seniority of the fired employees. It's very hard to distinguish between scapegoating and actually working to fix the problem without that information. The problem with Uber isn't that some employees engage in sexual harassment. The problem is that there's a culture where sexual harassment isn't taken seriously, is tolerated if the perpetrators are "high performing" in other respects, a…

> The article doesn't discuss the seniority of the fired employees. It's very hard to distinguish between scapegoating and actually working to fix the problem without that information. It's probably important to consider that even with those numbers, you wouldn't know whether it was scapegoating or not. All they would do would be to allow you to make assumptions, which is more about your preconceptions of what you th…

It's an internal investigation. The point is to protect the company from lawsuits, bad PR, and future incidents. It'll only be effective at figuring out how to prevent future incidents if leadership values that aspect. From what I can tell, Uber's leadership has a particularly intense and narrow-minded emphasis on Uber's business performance.

I'm not holding out much hope of getting clarity from the investigation.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#135

Post by skewart »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #31
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone has to write the app and maintain the backend.

You should be able to do both with far fewer than 12,000 people. I suspect that the bulk of those people are doing something else.

> You should be able to do both with far fewer than 12,000 people.

You're absolutely right. You could probably run Uber with a tenth of that headcount.

The thing is, at a lot of companies - and I'm guessing Uber is the same - there's no incentive to have a small team. In fact, managers are incentivized to have a bigger team. Having more reports, and more levels of management, under you is a status symbol. Plus, people use it to justify taking on bigger roles and more responsibility - "better to give the promotion to the person who already has experience managing a 300 person team and already has experience managing managers who manage managers than the person who's been making do with 10 direct reports."

So a lot more people end up getting hired than perhaps are really strictly necessary. It's a dynamic that probably most high-growth companies fall into at some point. You have to really consciously make an effort to stay lean if you want to.

Of course, what's wrong with having a little fat in the workforce as long as you have plenty of cash in the bank and can still operate effectively? Even if the hiring is driven in part by execs jockeying for position it's still spreading some of Uber's cash out to a broader swath of people. From a societal standpoint it's arguably better for Uber to employ 12,000 than 1,200 people.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#136

Post by _prototype_ »

ebcode wrote: post #83
randyrand wrote: post #57

I just want to say, for every person in disgust of Uber and their sexual harassment scenario, there are many more of us that just don't care. Of course, most that don't care don't comment. So the comment section is not a good view of public opinion. Just the vocal minority.

Yours is an interesting comment because of its paradoxical nature. You seem to be implying that you yourself "don't care", but then say that those that don't care don't comment, and yet here you are commenting, which would imply that you do indeed care. But then, you only care enough to say you don't care, and that there are "many more" people like you. But I don't see anyone else saying "hey, we don't care" on this…

I really don't care, but I'll further convolute your logic by commenting. In my anecdotal experience, there are many people that do not care about these controversies. They care more more about whether Uber is solving their transportation problem.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#137

Post by macspoofing »

bogomipz wrote: post #73
macspoofing wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The problem is that there's a culture where sexual harassment isn't taken seriously Is there? I've seen people claim this but I haven't seen any evidence for it. I know Susan Fowler's account is used frequently as basis for that statement and though I don't doubt her sincerity and truthfulness, you can't just extrapolate her experience to the entire (global) company.

>"Is there? I've seen people claim this but I haven't seen any evidence for it." Can you explain why you feel that 20 people being fired as a result of a company-wide investigation into to sexual harassment doesn't constitute evidence of a problem?

Because it's 20 people out 12,000 and I (we) have no idea what it is they were fired for exactly. We don't know the context, the exact infraction, and how it was dealt with initially. I can't even tell if that rate is high, average or low when compared with any other company of similar size who would create a special sexual-harassment probe to investigate itself.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#138

Post by randyrand »

Tenhundfeld wrote: post #125
randyrand wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll help solve the paradox. "Don't care" can refer to at least 3 things: 1. don't care that there is sexual harassment at Uber 2. don't care about sexual harassment like that occurred at Uber 3. don't care that other people think most people care My comment is about those that check off all 3. They are the majority, and they don't comment. For me, I only check off #1 and #2, hence the comment.

I think part of the response you're getting is that "I don't care" is still vague. It could mean you don't find it interesting or relevant to your life. Or it could mean you don't think sexual harassment is morally wrong. Or something else. For example, I could say that I "don't care" about cholera deaths in Africa. I think it's a tragedy and hope the situation improves, but I'm not seeking out news about it or basin…

Yes, I did go back and clarify my comment a bit already

Sexually harassment can definitely be morally wrong. But I'm not particularly outraged, mad, or upset by the sexual harassment scenario that happened at Uber, specifically. I don't think all sexual harassment should be lumped together, and doing so can lead to witch hunts.

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#139

Post by wakkaflokka »

randyrand wrote: post #57

I just want to say, for every person in disgust of Uber and their sexual harassment scenario, there are many more of us that just don't care. Of course, most that don't care don't comment. So the comment section is not a good view of public opinion. Just the vocal minority.

The natural follow-up question I have, is why don't you care?

Re: Uber Fires More Than 20 Employees in Harassment Probe

#140

Post by macspoofing »

user5994461 wrote: post #53
tdicola wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why you list references from your last job and people call them to see what kind of person you were while there.

You never list references from your last job. You don't want your future company to call your current company to give them a heads up that you are leaving. For this very same reason, companies never ask for reference from your current job.

>For this very same reason, companies never ask for reference from your current job.

Sure they do. They just give you an offer first and make it conditional on a reference check.

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