Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills • Hacker News Board

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#221

Post by randcraw » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 3:28 PM UTC

suneilp wrote: post #117

It took me a long time to really develop critical thinking skills. I'm still behind where I think I want to be. One thing I've noticed is spending more time on the right sites, like HN, has helped tremendously. Even if they aren't perfect. Another thing that has really helped is spending more time with critical thinking friends. So what really makes the top colleges so great. Is it really just the professors and curr…

I've attended some top schools and some mediocre schools. The better schools stood out for:

1) more academically demanding (e.g. better organized course syllabi, sharper profs, harder homework, bolder more relevant projects, exposure to research-level problems, use of up-to-date tools & methods, fewer profs on autopilot).

2) smarter students who were more engaged, asked questions, had more complex side interests and hobbies, and thought outside the box. The social dynamics at top schools (esp. among techies) is simply a different world.

And usually, at the best schools, both the students and the school put little emphasis on intercollegiate sports.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#222

Post by giarc » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 3:29 PM UTC

monksy wrote: post #207

Side note: Should we allow WSJ articles as that they prevent the reader from reading the entire article for free? At this moment it seems like it's an avenue to advertise for WSJ.

The issue with WSJ articles has come up many times before. There used to be work arounds (googling the url, going through a FB link etc) but most seemed to be closed now. I agree, WSJ articles should be discouraged, however, it's an open submission process. The problem is that people upvote the submission based upon the headline (and comments/discussion) and don't access the article. This is fine, however we then end up in situations like this.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#223

Post by akud » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 3:31 PM UTC

Xeoncross wrote: post #220

I'm working on critical thinking with my 2 year old. If he can't think critically by college then I've failed. I spend time each day practicing discussing things with him and he has already come to assume if he wants anything in life he will need to talk about it as throwing a fit or whining ensures he does not get anything. People assume because kids haven't been trained, they can't be trained. So they wait until th…

I have a 1&1/2 year old, and I'm curious about your approach. What kind of things do you discuss with your son? Is it on the level of "if you want a cookie, you have to ask" or more like "why do you think so-and-so did that?"

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#224

Post by TallGuyShort » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 3:34 PM UTC

Xeoncross wrote: post #216

danielford wrote: post #210

I teach community college biology, and I agree that we're really bad at teaching critical thinking. But the Collegiate Learning Assessment (CLA) cited by this article was graded by a computer last time I checked. Here's a direct quote from one of their papers a few years ago: "Beginning in fall 2010, we moved to automated scoring exclusively, using Pearson’s Intelligent Essay Assess or (IEA). IEA is the automated sco…

So as long as you think critically the same way as everyone else does you'll be fine.

Or perhaps worse: think critically the same way the test writer does: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/standardized-tests-are-s...

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#225

Post by davidf18 » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 3:37 PM UTC

rickdale wrote: post #219

davidf18 wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have learned Talmud without being religious and it is very, very educational in my opinion and very interesting. If you study it you will see that it is full of critical thinking and different ways of looking at the same issue. It has been translated into Korean and a number of Koreans study it to help them to be better at thinking [1]. Check out an Artscroll Talmud which has a good English translation. There might…

Well, speaking from a secular point of view, studying the Talmud in and of itself makes you religious regardless of the education you are getting from it. You are funny. You are basically orthodox for whats considered Jewish around me and yet you don't even think of yourself as ,"very religious".

Well, I'm glad you find me amusing. Using your logic, studying Physics makes me a Physicist. Studying Mathematics makes me a Mathematician.

Also, I think that the Koreans who study Talmud might not think that they are religious.

Honestly, anyone with intellectual curiosity I feel would find the Talmud interesting, regardless of being non-religious or of an ethnicity other than Judaism.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#226

Post by kakarot » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 3:38 PM UTC

Fricken wrote: post #205

The problem isn't critical thinking skills. You can get together any 5 jokers and ask them 'what's the best way to build a backyard patio?', and they'll all start stroking their chins. But when thinking critically interferes with some sort of strong emotion, or pre-conceived belief system, then forget it. It doesn't matter how much education you have, if entertaining a particular problem causes your amygdala to start…

So the problem is indeed critical thinking skills. We must be able to critically identify devices and experiences that emotionally compromise us and lead to illogical action.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#227

Post by TallGuyShort » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 3:39 PM UTC

monksy wrote: post #203

pmarreck wrote: post #148

See: the last election cycle Also: As someone who does have critical-thinking skills (perhaps taught by my Cornell Psych major), it's extremely disheartening to see bad thinking pretty much everywhere

The last election cycle and the conservative party is not reflective on intelligence. (Granted the party has had and currently has vocal people who are 1. aren't well educated and 2. are incredibly intolerant 3. a mixture of both) Politics relies on playing on people's confirmation biases and it works. Trump is not the only one who did that. Politicians won't debate fact because they can be wrong, and also they can b…

>> the party has had and currently has vocal people who are 1. aren't well educated and 2. are incredibly intolerant 3. a mixture of both

Hmm... once again the conservative and liberal parties sound identical to me. OP didn't say anything about conservatives.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#228

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 3:41 PM UTC

sametmax wrote: post #212

davidf18 wrote: post #195

Why wait for college to teach critical thinking skills? My father is a prof at a major university and we grew up discussing ideas, but high schools can teach critical thinking skills and problem solving. My high school was owned by the university and we did a lot of critical thinking. Jewish religious schools (Yeshivas) teach critical thinking skills by studying the Talmud [1]. A number of Yeshiva students take the L…

I agree that critical thinking should be taugth sooner. A 12 years old can perfectly handle it. I got the most jewish name ever, however, I can't agree with you on the Talmud. Just like the Bible and the Coran, it's full of things that goes exactly in the opposite direction of critical thinking. And religion, while helping with a lot of things like holding communities and sharing values, is definitly using a huge num…

[deleted]

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#229

Post by mannykannot » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 3:42 PM UTC

unit91 wrote: post #166

mannykannot wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would one not be opposed to it? Not only do colleges not explicitly tell the students, they almost-explicitly promote contrary myths, as they must do in order to keep the pipeline filled. A generation is being encouraged to take on debt that many may never pay off, setting us up for a future crisis, in order to support the lifestyle of a privileged few.

HR practices are the real problem, not just "the privileged few". Try getting a good job without a degree. It's tough. Until that changes, we're stuck with it.

While HR practices may be contributing to the myth-making, neither HR nor the companies they are a part of are beneficiaries of this process.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#230

Post by rickdale » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 3:43 PM UTC

davidf18 wrote: post #225

rickdale wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, speaking from a secular point of view, studying the Talmud in and of itself makes you religious regardless of the education you are getting from it. You are funny. You are basically orthodox for whats considered Jewish around me and yet you don't even think of yourself as ,"very religious".

Well, I'm glad you find me amusing. Using your logic, studying Physics makes me a Physicist. Studying Mathematics makes me a Mathematician. Also, I think that the Koreans who study Talmud might not think that they are religious. Honestly, anyone with intellectual curiosity I feel would find the Talmud interesting, regardless of being non-religious or of an ethnicity other than Judaism.

Physics makes me a Physicist Thats not what I said. Thats comparing apples and oranges. I would bet my bank account your are Jewish, and you are religious in the eyes of this Jew, regardless if you are as religious as your father. I dont doubt the talmud is intellectually interesting, but the reality is those that are studying it ARE religious. Even the koreans you keep referencing; even if they aren't religious at all, they are in the minority for those studying the Talmud that way.