Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#421

Post by wpietri » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 2:15 PM UTC

sotojuan wrote: post #401

DanBC wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't drink alcohol - but if somebody is drunk, whether they're a guy or a girl - or whether the gender ratio at my workplace is 60:40 or 80:20 is irrelevant. They are drunk. I'm certainly not going to say - "Oh you're a women but you're drunk...well, that's OK then". Although to be honest, if you're drunk and not causing me any harm, meh. You might want to talk to women about their experiences of drunk men.

This person is the perfect example of why women hate it when men try to give them advice.

So, so true.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#422

Post by specialist » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 2:22 PM UTC

lmitchell wrote: post #345

specialist wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My highest function team had a mostly open office. Big, wide, open, lotsa windows, plants, couch etc. 12 people, self selected. We had a handful of offices for anyone who preferred or needed that. Then my boss stuffed some clowns onto my budget and ruined the magic. Since then, most places I've worked have been either call centers or highschool cafeterias. No amount of bon ami can overcome inhumane working conditions…

I know this is a bit irrelevant... but did you mean 'bonhomie'? (I only think that because I was really, really confused by that sentence - then I realized I had been mispronouncing 'bonhomie' in my head this whole time, quite badly. I guess I learned it by reading and you learned it by speaking :P)

Spot on! Nicely done.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#423

Post by TACIXAT » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 2:25 PM UTC

losteverything wrote: post #418

victorhooi wrote: post #292

I don't really get the reference to ping pong tables and free beer...? Is it a metaphor, or is the commenter literally referring to those things? I've worked in a range of places * Investment bank - German, very formal, very little perks * Options Trading Company - Dutch, laid-back, casual dress, free alcohol, free food, lots of games, lots of perks * Database Company - Tech startup, fairly well funded, casual dress,…

"Girl's" are females under the age of 18. To my learning, use of girls to not mean girls is incorrect speech and should be avoided. Use woman or female.

It's not incorrect, it's just diminutive and can be insulting in a professional setting. Going out with the girls and having a drink with my boys are perfectly fine things to say when referring to your friends. Similar to how bro is thrown around, you wouldn't describe your colleague that way.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#424

Post by TACIXAT » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 2:35 PM UTC

wpietri wrote: post #420

victorhooi wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My first point was that this isn't gender specific. My example was - I don't touch alcohol, I don't like ping pong, or consoles, or any of the things that people hold up as "bro" culture. But nor am I going to hold it against a workplace if they want to offer those things. It's not a negative - it's just a thing. For example - nursing rooms for mothers, or Muslim prayer rooms. I may not use them personally, but I don…

Again, you have generated and extraordinary amount of opinion given that this post was not for you and given your ignorance of the topic. I understand you don't see why these things are problems. What is extraordinary to me is that you have confused "I don't see X" with "X does not exist". And then gone on to blather extensively based on this confusion. I get it. You're a paragon of self control. Congrats. Have a coo…

>this post was not for you

>your ignorance of the topic

>blather extensively

>Have a cookie.

>Irrelevant to you, as a financially comfortable white man.

>ignorantly proclaiming on the topic is not fine

>You are part of the problem

This isn't meaningful discussion. It's just insults, assumptions, and aggressive dismissal of another person's opinion.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#425

Post by erroneousfunk » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 2:36 PM UTC

goodcanadian wrote: post #207

jansho wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah ok, I was curious to know your opinion since for me, "women-friendly policies" mean consideration for pregnancy, childcare and so on! Regarding diversity events, I slightly disagree with you. Ironically I became an advocate only after my engineering education, when I suddenly experienced 'different' treatment. Welcome to the real world, they say, but it affected me quite badly. I suddenly found those women support…

Ah ok, I was curious to know your opinion since for me, "women-friendly policies" mean consideration for pregnancy, childcare and so on! As a father, it bothers me to see those considerations described as "women-friendly." Why is it assumed that my wife is the one who has to leave early to pick our daughter up from school? The most "woman friendly" policy would also involve changing the expectations on men to allow w…

They're not "women-friendly" because they just cover women. The most women-friendly policy in the world is one that provides plenty of these opportunities to both sexes in equal, or almost equal measure.

If HR doesn't have to worry that I'm a bigger liability because of my gender (after all, the man sitting next to me also gets flex time and leeway to pick up his kids) that's a bonus for me.

The worst case is when there are no opportunities, or when they're so lopsided (14 weeks paid parental leave for women, 2 weeks for men) that you become a liability.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#426

Post by ForRealsies » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 2:37 PM UTC

ezrast wrote: post #320

abawany wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is one difference between the person who prefers cubicles/isolation and one who prefers an open space: when you want to get away from the isolation, all you have to do is walk over to a willing party and have a chat. For people (like me and others in this thread) who are unable to function in open spaces, there is no escape from the torture.

I don't think this is true at all. Human social behavior is incredibly sensitive to perceived norms and paths of least resistance; this can be observed all the time in online games where minor changes to UI or reward structures have drastic ramifications on player social behavior. A lot of interaction simply will never come about if it isn't fostered organically by the environment. This isn't to dispute that the bene…

This is very true. For starters, you will foster an entirely different level of relationship with a coworker 10 feet away from you than you will with one 30 feet away.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#427

Post by abawany » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 2:37 PM UTC

baddox wrote: post #340

abawany wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if you want to kill the alone-ness, all you have to do is step out. Heck, people used to pair program in cubes long before this open space disease (sorry, my opinion). For those of us that are unable to function in the cage-free farm, our only option is to destroy our hearing with headphones to try to get some work done.

Step out to where exactly? Generally it's not just you in your own office, everyone else is too.

I think I misunderstood your original comment 'Or they don't want to feel like I'm [0] locked in a room alone for absolutely no reason.'. I took it to mean that cubicles/offices cause loneliness. I now see that what you were saying is that the reason people are stuffed in the bullpen is the 'concern' that you outlined.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#428

Post by usmeteora » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 2:39 PM UTC

odonnellryan wrote: post #391

usmeteora wrote: post #389

The biggest issue is when guys use new incoming female employees as dating prospects because they don't meet females elsewhere. They may be nice and friendly but I don't want to have to shake off and turn down 6 guys who are fighting to get at me first everywhere I work, its really not ok. It happens at every place I've ever worked and watch the same guys do it to new girls. They are here for a job, not to supply you…

Huh! Probably blind to this somewhat because I'm a guy, but I haven't seen this at the tech jobs I'm at in NJ. Realistically, you speak to different genders differently without realizing it, but I have always worked in highly-diverse environments (I wouldn't want to ever work somewhere where I saw all XYZ gender or race working there) and it has been fine.

nah, I've worked with companies who rank incoming female Interns by hotness and argue over who gets to date her and try to bash other male employees and fight over them for projects before they ever have the first day at the office.

This has happened in 3 workplaces I know of.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#429

Post by ForRealsies » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 2:48 PM UTC

losteverything wrote: post #418

victorhooi wrote: post #292

I don't really get the reference to ping pong tables and free beer...? Is it a metaphor, or is the commenter literally referring to those things? I've worked in a range of places * Investment bank - German, very formal, very little perks * Options Trading Company - Dutch, laid-back, casual dress, free alcohol, free food, lots of games, lots of perks * Database Company - Tech startup, fairly well funded, casual dress,…

"Girl's" are females under the age of 18. To my learning, use of girls to not mean girls is incorrect speech and should be avoided. Use woman or female.

Flo Rida's 'Where Them Girls At' will leave you disturbed then.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#430

Post by ForRealsies » Tue, Jun 06, 2017, 2:54 PM UTC

TACIXAT wrote: post #424

wpietri wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, you have generated and extraordinary amount of opinion given that this post was not for you and given your ignorance of the topic. I understand you don't see why these things are problems. What is extraordinary to me is that you have confused "I don't see X" with "X does not exist". And then gone on to blather extensively based on this confusion. I get it. You're a paragon of self control. Congrats. Have a coo…

>this post was not for you >your ignorance of the topic >blather extensively >Have a cookie. >Irrelevant to you, as a financially comfortable white man. >ignorantly proclaiming on the topic is not fine >You are part of the problem This isn't meaningful discussion. It's just insults, assumptions, and aggressive dismissal of another person's opinion.

Today's society has lost the ability to debate.