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Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

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Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#411

Post by erroneousfunk »

Ntrails wrote: post #375
geebee wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The part about ping pong and beer vs a more formal workplace is really interesting. I've been reading more about this lately. One story that struck me was about a journalist whose newspaper was purchased by a tech company, and the culture changed. She went from having a private office to working in a huge, open office environment. I'm putting this together from memory, but I remember her talking about how strange it…

> not knowing where to put her bag if she wasn't at her desk watching it, and having to take it with her to the bathroom I find this bizarre - what do you think the people you work with are going to rob you or go through your stuff? I seem to recall one place had a couple of iphones nicked off desks once by someone who'd managed to shoulder surf inside but I mean of all the complaints that's an odd one to me

Yeah, I've worked in many offices of various sizes and have never been worried about my stuff being stolen. I tend to be a little more relaxed about the fear of theft than most, but the office seems like a fairly safe place.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#412

Post by Spoom »

DanBC wrote: post #380
redfog7 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Do you want children ? " This question makes me run away.

In the UK that question can't be asked or it opens the employer to liabilities.

While it may not specifically be illegal in the US, it's certainly opening the interviewing company up to huge potential liability. All the interviewee would have to do would be to show that it's more likely than not that they were intending to discriminate based on gender / likelihood to get pregnant.

Definitely not a question that should be asked.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#413

Post by wowwza_wazaa34 »

I look for women/PoC in senior management and / or technical leadership. I generally prefer more conservative workplaces where emphasis is on results rather than socialising. Also if you can ask around about pay and see whether they are large pay differentials for the same or similar levels of work.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#414

Post by thex10 »

afarrell wrote: post #373
thex10 wrote: post #30

I am a woman of color and to be honest I totally lucked into it. From the perspective that I work for a large, old company: * Get a sense of how the company embraces (or doesn't embrace) flexible work arrangements. Can an employee leave early to run errands or pick up kids and make up the hours that night or on a different day without having to jump through hoops and/or get looked at like they have two heads? My theo…

Question: are those two policies not bog-standard things that you'd expect from any tech company, especially a startup?

Maybe? Smaller companies might not have all the supporting infrastructure ready though. And even if a company claims to have those policies, it won't always be implemented the same way..

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#415

Post by exelius »

mcgrath_sh wrote: post #404
exelius wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Formality of environment need not extend to dress code. Remember, dress codes are used against women (by men telling the woman how she should be dressing) far more often than they are men. You can have a formal office without a formal dress code. Yesterday I wore jeans, a t-shirt, chucks and a blazer to work at a formal company. I only wear the blazer because I am physically small and look young, so I feel it enhance…

It does help though. It doesn't need to be overly formal, but putting on nice slacks and a nice shirt with dress shoes helps you go "I am at work. This is different than when I wear my casual clothes. These people are my colleagues and not my friends/family." I'm not saying that it is solely down to the clothes, but that small bit of separation helps.

I do agree with you on a personal level (I wouldn't wear shorts or jeans with holes in them to work, but I do on my own time); but I feel strict company-enforced dress codes are unnecessary for this.

People tend to self-adjust to the norms of their workplace. More than once I have had a male colleague ask me how to address a female employee who wore clothing that they considered too provocative (too short of skirt / low cut shirt).

My response? Say nothing; it's usually a junior employee who is trying to figure out the norms of what to wear at work. Women's fashion is a lot more complicated than men's, and it can take some time to find a professional dress style that works for you. Mansplaining women's fashion to her isn't going to help.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#416

Post by [deleted] »

redfog7 wrote: post #354
watwut wrote: post #56

Disclaimer: I am women, but never stepped the foot in CA. Geography matters. I see ping pong tables and free beer as a red flag of sorts and seek workplace that is more formal. The idea is that the less it attempts to be personal/cool/cultural the less personal things (e.g. gender or peoples attitudes/biases or who-likes-who) matters and the more actual work matters. I have no stats to support this, just my guess and…

"Do you want children ? " This question makes me run away.

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#417

Post by watwut »

exelius wrote: post #392
UnpossibleJim wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a woman, a person of colour or of fluid sexuality or identity, so disregard my comment if it so pleases you, but the older I get the more I seem to want the exact things you are looking for. A little formality seems like it might be a wonderful thing and I won't have to pretend I care about the owner's bitching new Tesla. I work in tech currently and tend to dress in shorts and a Tshirt, which is comfortable…

Formality of environment need not extend to dress code. Remember, dress codes are used against women (by men telling the woman how she should be dressing) far more often than they are men. You can have a formal office without a formal dress code. Yesterday I wore jeans, a t-shirt, chucks and a blazer to work at a formal company. I only wear the blazer because I am physically small and look young, so I feel it enhance…

Yeah, pretty much this. When I said formal I did not mean to exclude metal kid or force that kid to wear tie. It was not supposed to be about dress code.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#418

Post by losteverything »

victorhooi wrote: post #292

I don't really get the reference to ping pong tables and free beer...? Is it a metaphor, or is the commenter literally referring to those things? I've worked in a range of places * Investment bank - German, very formal, very little perks * Options Trading Company - Dutch, laid-back, casual dress, free alcohol, free food, lots of games, lots of perks * Database Company - Tech startup, fairly well funded, casual dress,…

"Girl's" are females under the age of 18.

To my learning, use of girls to not mean girls is incorrect speech and should be avoided. Use woman or female.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#419

Post by TACIXAT »

geebee wrote: post #81
watwut wrote: post #56

Disclaimer: I am women, but never stepped the foot in CA. Geography matters. I see ping pong tables and free beer as a red flag of sorts and seek workplace that is more formal. The idea is that the less it attempts to be personal/cool/cultural the less personal things (e.g. gender or peoples attitudes/biases or who-likes-who) matters and the more actual work matters. I have no stats to support this, just my guess and…

The part about ping pong and beer vs a more formal workplace is really interesting. I've been reading more about this lately. One story that struck me was about a journalist whose newspaper was purchased by a tech company, and the culture changed. She went from having a private office to working in a huge, open office environment. I'm putting this together from memory, but I remember her talking about how strange it…

Why is everyone concerned with how often they piss? I drink 3-4 liters of water a day and take many bathroom breaks. Who cares? Everyone does it. I think it's more concerning that people aren't drinking enough water.

Re: Ask HN: Women in tech, how do you find non-toxic work environments?

#420

Post by wpietri »

victorhooi wrote: post #390
wpietri wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have generated quite a bit of opinion given that you start out admitting you don't even understand the discussion and are not part of the group being asked for opinions. There are good reasons to be suspicious of companies who push hard on the "we're so fun!" angle. It can be a warning sign of any or all of: chaotic management, chaotic development practices, a work-all-the-time culture, a culture that's not famil…

My first point was that this isn't gender specific. My example was - I don't touch alcohol, I don't like ping pong, or consoles, or any of the things that people hold up as "bro" culture. But nor am I going to hold it against a workplace if they want to offer those things. It's not a negative - it's just a thing. For example - nursing rooms for mothers, or Muslim prayer rooms. I may not use them personally, but I don…

Again, you have generated and extraordinary amount of opinion given that this post was not for you and given your ignorance of the topic.

I understand you don't see why these things are problems. What is extraordinary to me is that you have confused "I don't see X" with "X does not exist". And then gone on to blather extensively based on this confusion.

I get it. You're a paragon of self control. Congrats. Have a cookie. But you're playing this game at the lowest difficulty setting: http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-th...

Other things become relevant when you play it on different settings.

> but if somebody is drunk, whether they're a guy or a girl - or whether the gender ratio at my workplace is 60:40 or 80:20 is irrelevant

Irrelevant to you, as a financially comfortable white man. It is not irrelevant to other people. You don't understand why, which is fine.

But ignorantly proclaiming on the topic is not fine. Aggressive dismissal of the concerns of other people is part of why large parts of humanity are underrepresented in tech.

You are part of the problem. Right here, right now. So ask yourself: what will you do differently next time?

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