Many comments here are about the value of higher ed generally and are fascinating to read, but I'm interested in critical reasoning particularly, and this study doesn't surprise me. (1) Critical reasoning is rarely taught directly, especially to students who don't major in or take a philosophy course. (2) Even when critical reasoning is taught directly, it's poorly taught. Compare an introductory text on critical rea…
Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills
111–120 of 328 posts
Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was actually talking about a pre-med degree to apply to med school. I also would prefer a doctor who has been through med school and residency.
Even pre-med has a lot of lab courses, which are a bit more difficult to do with self-study than straight textbook-based instruction.
Anyways it doesn't seem like an insurmountable obstacle: If it's deemed necessary one physically demonstrate certain skills before med school admittance then perhaps admissions could be contingent on passing a summer course in lab skills could be
Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm a student and I agree. I'm enrolled in 3 classes right now that will have little to no impact on my future career. I am personally motivated to learn more about topics that interest me, and I believe that colleges should be more focused on helping kids work towards something that they want to do, and not have them taking extraneous classes just for the sake of it.
I don't think you're really agreeing with the OP. The OP didn't say anything about not making you take classes that aren't directly focused on your career. Those classes are what make college different from trade school. You may think it sounds like a meaningless platitude now when you just want hurry up and be done with the whole thing, but many of those "extraneous" classes will make you a more rounded person if yo…
In my family, myself and my brother have been successful by focusing on one or two skills and honing them. That was made much harder by the education system, which fought us the whole way, because it sees specialisation as some sort of problem when it is in fact the solution. In my brother's case the school tried to insist he went to university. He didn't, as he knew full well what he wanted to do and reckoned, correctly, he would do better without being a student. In my case the university insisted that I take non-CS classes despite that I was paying them for a CS course. The classes were interesting, but marked arbitrarily (i.e. one essay at the end and who knows how it's evaluated?). I nearly got kicked out of CS because of a single essay written on archaeology!
As I go through life, I constantly encounter people who thought they were "learning how to learn" or "learning how to think" when they went to university, only to discover after graduation that they had no particular skills and were seem as essentially worthless by the job market. It's tremendously depressing for them and creates constant, lifelong insecurity.
Critical thinking abilities are something you want on top but are not a substitute for actual, hard skills. And they are certainly not something a university can teach - please. All the stats and studies show that universities are incredibly ideologically homogenous and rapidly stamp out any political thought that deviates from their left wing consensus. Universities teach people that thinking and disagreement are dangerous, that opinions are "triggering", and speaking out loud leads to exclusion. They're the last place on earth I'd expect critical thinking skills to emerge unscathed.
Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills
#114Many comments here are about the value of higher ed generally and are fascinating to read, but I'm interested in critical reasoning particularly, and this study doesn't surprise me. (1) Critical reasoning is rarely taught directly, especially to students who don't major in or take a philosophy course. (2) Even when critical reasoning is taught directly, it's poorly taught. Compare an introductory text on critical rea…
Can you recommend a text on critical reasoning? It's something I often feel I'm quite bad at.
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/poster
There's more to critical reasoning than understanding logical fallacies of course. But knowing how to avoid and recognise them is a basic part of it.
Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Paying for the party" is amusing. "Pledged: The Secret Life of Sororities" covers much the same material. The importance of drinking didn't happen by accident. The alcohol industry promoted it heavily.[1] Two out of five students in the colleges studied are now binge drinkers. I got critical thinking early because I was brought up by a lawyer. There were always briefs around the house, and I could read the briefs fo…
I'd actually be really interested in knowing what percentage of people read opposing rhetoric. I easily spend far more time listening to and reading right-leaning rhetoric, despite being left leaning. I already know "my side". Why would I want to live in an echo chamber?
Echo chambers are boring.
Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
Totally agree. It took me until several years out of school to realize that learning to think should have been a primary focus of university. 25 years on I am realizing that although it got me work and very decent pay I probably would have been much better off if the entire focus of university had been: 1. Learning how to think 2. Learning how to learn Really the focus of earlier schooling probably should have been:…
Exactly. We're taught those things that Google can give us faster than our brain can recall, like "Capital of Peru???? https://hackernoon.com/learning-to-code-focus-on-when-rather...
And he's got a point. There's not much advantage to knowing the precise locations of all countries on earth, unless you're working in foreign policy etc.
Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills
#117So what really makes the top colleges so great. Is it really just the professors and curriculum or is the real value in that more bright minds are all grouped together.
Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills
#118I've taught college. This study is wildly unsurprising. I've written about this in various places (e.g. https://jakeseliger.com/2014/04/27/paying-for-the-party-eliz... ), but most colleges have evolved majors and paths that are designed to move students through the system, collect their tuition money, and graduate them. In re-reading the previous sentence, I think I sound opposed to this. I am a little bit, maybe, bu…
I think that's what colleges have indeed turned into but to the student's detriment rather than benefit. The pursuit of knowledge scarcely seems to be emphasized upon now - though I'm not sure to what extent that's purely the fault of colleges.
Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have attended several different colleges, and my kids have all attended different colleges (than the ones that I've attended) and from that sample we discovered great variation in both the quality of the teaching and the focus of the teaching. From our limited data set (3 private liberal arts, 1 private "top ten", 3 different community colleges) the small private liberal arts colleges all had some classes that were…
Can confirm that your experience at the top ten school applies to Purdue Engineering and Technology majors. First year starts out slow with mostly 100+ people classes (accounting had 1,100! 550 in the room at a time), but after that they get specialized and you normally find the more personable professors in the higher numbers since there are normal size classes of maybe 10-50.
I've found the smaller lectures to be much nicer since it allows engaged students to discuss the subject with the lecturer more freely. (Of course, it depends on the lecturer, i.e. if he/she allows questions and counterpoints from the audience, but most lecturers do.)
Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills
#120Earlier quoted context omitted.
Totally agree. It took me until several years out of school to realize that learning to think should have been a primary focus of university. 25 years on I am realizing that although it got me work and very decent pay I probably would have been much better off if the entire focus of university had been: 1. Learning how to think 2. Learning how to learn Really the focus of earlier schooling probably should have been:…
Learning how to think and how to learn should be the primary focus of early education, since all later learning depends on it.
From my experiences, too many kids straight out of high school go to university blind in the face of knowledge and don't think for themselves, and the capacity for independent thought (or lack thereof) is a very big issue.