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Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

wsj.com

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Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#51

Post by RachelF »

jseliger wrote: post #2

I've taught college. This study is wildly unsurprising. I've written about this in various places (e.g. https://jakeseliger.com/2014/04/27/paying-for-the-party-eliz... ), but most colleges have evolved majors and paths that are designed to move students through the system, collect their tuition money, and graduate them. In re-reading the previous sentence, I think I sound opposed to this. I am a little bit, maybe, bu…

Much depends on what you choose to study in college. One can easily get an advanced degree without picking up critical-thinking skills.

Whether critical-thinking skills are actually valuable for making money or personal happiness are something perhaps left to philosophy or theology departments.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#52

Post by jstewartmobile »

Not the biggest fan of higher ed, but why put this on the colleges? Why not the high schools? Eighteen was practically middle-aged in the 19th century. We just keep dropping that bar and infantilizing people so much that WSJ will be writing this about PhD programs in a few more years.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#55

Post by pvg »

dragonwriter wrote: post #50
closure wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sense, yes. What I'm getting at specifically is that: - Although we teach people to read, we don't necessarily put enough focus on comprehension and understanding. - Although we teach people to write, we tend to focus on mechanics rather than on writing clearly and in a way that emphasizes our meaning. - We don't just focus on functional math, but teach much more complex math to virtually everyone that goes thro…

> Although we teach people to write, we tend to focus on mechanics rather than on writing clearly and in a way that emphasizes our meaning. That's not really true; the five-paragraph essay form and it's fractal expansions that dominate grade-school writing is all about clarity and focus on meaning. It's a horrible as a model for anything other than persuasive writing for a number of other reasons, and given the way t…

it's fractal expansions

Maybe their not as horrible as your saying! :)

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#57

Post by gnaritas »

rockinghigh wrote: post #31
shirro wrote: post #20

If people had critical thinking skills they wouldn't be taking out outrageous loans to pay for often worthless degrees.

Good luck finding a job without a college degree.

Never had a problem; provable skills nearly always trump a degree in tech. What you mean is good luck getting a job with no experience without a degree.

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#58

Post by happy-go-lucky »

rockinghigh wrote: post #31
shirro wrote: post #20

If people had critical thinking skills they wouldn't be taking out outrageous loans to pay for often worthless degrees.

Good luck finding a job without a college degree.

> Good luck finding a job without a college degree.

I've a couple of them, but my degrees won't come to my rescue when I'm about to get fired for my poor performance :)

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#59

Post by Nickersf »

Every time a college sucks article gets published I think the same things:

Look at the college enrollment rates since the 1960's. Look at the tuition rates since the 1960's Look at the distribution of majors since the 1960's

Then precede to look at the labor market. It all becomes very clear. There's millions of great young people roaming the halls of colleges who are not engaged in higher learning. Great young people who would develop critical thinking skills from work, family and good on the job training.

Many of these young people are told from an early age that college is a must in order to get anywhere. Whether that's true, I can't answer with confidence. I waited to go to college. After high school I decided to work, pay bills and taxes. In my late 20's I went back for a CS degree and am productive and happy now. Had I gone right out of high school I would have wasted a lot of time and money.

Is there even a solution to this issue outside of the family? Is the focus and quality of k-12 in the wrong place? Is it a mixture? Who knows?

Re: Many Colleges Fail to Improve Critical-Thinking Skills

#60

Post by cblock811 »

pvg wrote: post #42
closure wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a sense, yes. What I'm getting at specifically is that: - Although we teach people to read, we don't necessarily put enough focus on comprehension and understanding. - Although we teach people to write, we tend to focus on mechanics rather than on writing clearly and in a way that emphasizes our meaning. - We don't just focus on functional math, but teach much more complex math to virtually everyone that goes thro…

I don't know, these exact things are what's on the SAT. I don't mean to debate its qualities as a test or whether these are things one should be testing but the notion that they are somehow not the focus of primary and secondary education while also being a key factor in college admissions doesn't quite add up.

I think it's unfortunate that people wont argue their point with you and are only downvoting.

I think a lot more of the SAT is about gaming their system these days. You could argue that making an "educated guess" by eliminating clearly wrong answers is useful maybe...but i dont think it really stacks up to what their hoping for. I dont think eliminating obvious bad choices is critical thinking, or if it is then it's a very low level of it.

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