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IBM’s world-first 5nm chip indicates EUV lithography is ready for primetime

arstechnica.co.uk

31–35 of 35 posts

Re: IBM’s world-first 5nm chip indicates EUV lithography is ready for primetime

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1nm isn't a special number just because it is 1. A nm is one billionth of a metre which itself is an arbitrary length so 1nm is a purely arbitrary cut-off. What you should be asking is how many molecules of silicon and silicon-germanium can be packed into the spaces being talked about at the different fabrication levels of 14nm, 10nm, 7nm, 5nm, and so on. Once you have that information then you can ask what is the sm…

>All I know is that 1nm is not a magic number and that predictions about the demise of transistor scaling have always turned out to be wrong. My prediction is that, as unimaginable as it seems, we'll be able to scale down to the physical limits of the materials. This is very important to be pointed out. The burden of proof should be on the people who suggest that "this time it is different", not on those who correctl…

Isn't a silicon atom only like .2 nm wide? My guess is that a gate needs to be at least a few atoms wide so 1nm would seem to be decently close to the literal limit for silicon.

Re: IBM’s world-first 5nm chip indicates EUV lithography is ready for primetime

#32
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My prediction is that, as unimaginable as it seems, we'll be able to scale down to the physical limits of the materials. What are these physical limits of the materials?

Whatever they are, there will be some other materials that will let get lower.... Until we are building on a single atom, and even then maybe we can go smaller.

>even then maybe we can go smaller.

Can you elaborate?

Re: IBM’s world-first 5nm chip indicates EUV lithography is ready for primetime

#33
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that one way or the other the military and spy agencies will be funding the further development for national security and weapons reasons. It may not be known, but they are (or will be) funding either directly or indirectly.

The US military hasn't been a significant driver of electronic technology since the 1980s. They just don't have the volume to affect the technology path. Military electronics tends to lag commercial, because the life cycles are longer. The USAF's big electronics problem is obtaining supplies of obsolete parts. The pure military stuff tends to be in the sensor space. DARPA has some projects to build much better accele…

IBM's previously owned East-Fishkill Foundries have long been part of the DoD Trusted Foundries list. [1] (Slide 8)

IBM split off and kept the R&D part of the foundries and sold the manufacturing aspect to GlobalFoundries.

[1]http://www.acq.osd.mil/se/briefs/2016-TrustPolicy-Baldwin.pd...

Re: IBM’s world-first 5nm chip indicates EUV lithography is ready for primetime

#34
post #16

I wish this wasn't so laughable. What this really shows is that IBM has high margins for their chips, and a long standing tolerance for absurdly low yields and long wafer turn times. That they announce "production" before any of the other fabs is more likely do to PR needs than real technical advancement. https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/07/ibm-unveils-industry... EUV has been available for years and no doubt TSM…

That 200-250W is just just for minimum commercial viability, and that's the best that can be hoped for with the current drive lasers. Industry calls for four time that power, i.e. close to 1kW for sustainability.

Re: IBM’s world-first 5nm chip indicates EUV lithography is ready for primetime

#35
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever they are, there will be some other materials that will let get lower.... Until we are building on a single atom, and even then maybe we can go smaller.

>even then maybe we can go smaller. Can you elaborate?

We simply don't know what the smallest thing we can compute with is. A material scientist might say that the smallest silicon traces that can do the are X nanometers, then another will come along and say he is right, but we can use gallium-arsenide to get down to X-5 nanometers. And this progressive 1 upping has fueled Moore's law

There are people doing research on subatomic who think that various quarks have interesting properties for computing. This may or may not be possible. But we likely don't know yet.

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