Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

JSC loves ES6

webkit.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 191 posts

Re: JSC loves ES6

#81

Post by netheril96 »

pizlonator wrote: post #60
jacobolus wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but sticking to old-school Javascript features was dramatically faster than either.

Not necessarily. Map/Set is a counterexample. There’s no substitute for the JIT knowing how to reason about the internal aliasing properties of your hash table implementation. We’ll keep working on more optimizations for ES-6 so there will be more counter examples.

But ES6 Map/Set is almost useless as it has no custom hash nor equality function. The key is either numeric, string, or object identity, not anyway better than the builtin {}.

Re: JSC loves ES6

#82

Post by hoodoof »

jfbastien wrote: post #29
saamyjoon wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How so? Go to: http://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es2016plus/ In STP or WebKit nightly

I think OP meant 2015 is two years ago, claiming it makes it look behind. Truth is, ES6 is what we've called it, ES2015 is to confusing cool new name!

>> ES6 is what we've called it,

Who is "we"?

Re: JSC loves ES6

#84

Post by hoodoof »

om2 wrote: post #20
vmasto wrote: post #15

I really wish we would stop calling it ES6. Browser vendors should be especially careful to call ES2015 by its correct name and help stop perpetuating the confusion (ES6, ES7, ES2016, ES2017, you can see how this quickly gets confusing).

We'll probably use years for the future versions. ES6/ES2015 was a much bigger change than we're expecting from the next few versions so it seemed like a good point to make the break.

>> We'll probably use years for the future versions

Who is "we"?

Re: JSC loves ES6

#85

Post by alwillis »

pfooti wrote: post #69
kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There never was a browser monopoly on Windows just a bunch of tech illiterates who don't seem bothered by MS's "monopoly" with notepad.exe or anti-competitive moves like taking away the ability to use an alternate graphical shell. Only one popular consumer OS has prevented the installation of alternate browsers and everyone looks the other way.

I'm not entirely interested in relitigating a past I literally lived through. On the other hand, it is objectively true that there is only one browser platform for iOS. WebKit or nothing. If they actually supported chrome or Firefox instead of requiring them to be wrappers on webkit renderers, I would not have this complaint. Of course, the reason this isnt being taken up by anti-trust folks is that iOS doesn't domin…

Of course, the reason this isnt being taken up by anti-trust folks is that iOS doesn't dominate the market the way windows did. So: i guess the answer is to convince my users to stop buying idevices. Whee.

No. Monopolies themselves aren't illegal, especially when they're natural monopolies.

It is illegal for a company to use its monopoly to stifle competition in other, unrelated markets.

The classic case is Microsoft using its monopoly in operating systems when Windows had 95% marketshare in the emerging browser market. Remember that Microsoft threatened to cancel HP and Compaq’s Windows licenses if they continued to ship Netscape Navigator instead of IE. That's illegal.

It's not illegal to have a rules and guidelines for a platform a particular company owns. Game consoles are way more restrictive than the iOS App Store and nobody is suing them.

Re: JSC loves ES6

#86

Post by om2 »

hoodoof wrote: post #84
om2 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We'll probably use years for the future versions. ES6/ES2015 was a much bigger change than we're expecting from the next few versions so it seemed like a good point to make the break.

>> We'll probably use years for the future versions Who is "we"?

The WebKit team.

Re: JSC loves ES6

#87

Post by millstone »

pfooti wrote: post #68
MBCook wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I mean, where are service workers? Every discussion about anything in Safari on HN, even if not at all related, for the last year or two has included multiple people complaining about the lack of WebRTC. Now it's here and there is a new complaint /s I agree with threeseed that it probwont come and frankly I don't see why I'd want it (or web notification, or even WebRTC). They only seem to support the use case of re…

With service workers you can transparently intercept outgoing XHRs and replace their results with cached values. You can even do a cache race if you want (cancel the xhr if your cache returns first). This is a hugely important feature for making web apps work offline-first. I mean, it's also a big part of progressive web apps, which is the next thing I'm going to complain about. (I don't personally care much about we…

This seems like a very strange API. Why do you need a proxy to intercept network requests coming from your own app?

Re: JSC loves ES6

#88

Post by CharlesW »

zajd wrote: post #48
pfooti wrote: post #33

It seems weird to focus so much on es2015 features, when so many of them are polyfillable (not optimal, sure, but still) when there is such uneven support for DOM (and related browser) API features in safari. I mean, where are service workers? Give me a nice, cross-platform way to handle offline-first and I'll be happy. But hey, it isn't like there's some kind of browser monopoly on iOS or anything, like there was in…

I'm pretty sure Safari's features are intentionally crippled to keep their app ecosystem safe. See: web notifications.

Safari supports Web Notifications: http://caniuse.com/#feat=notifications

Safari 11 supports WebRTC, Media Capture API, WebAssembly, WebCrypto API, drag-and-drop, and other interesting new features. If a crippled browser is their goal, they're doing quite an awful job of it.

Re: JSC loves ES6

#89

Post by untog »

alwillis wrote: post #80
zajd wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Safari's features are intentionally crippled to keep their app ecosystem safe. See: web notifications.

I'm pretty sure Safari's features are intentionally crippled to keep their app ecosystem safe. See: web notifications. I’m pretty sure you'd be wrong. Apple announced that it's paid over $70 billion to app developers since the App Store became a thing in 2008 at today's WWDC keynote. This is the 30% Apple pays developers; so we're talking about $233 billion in gross transactions in less than 10 years. Apple is likely…

I think that's a shortsighted way to look at it. The iPhone is as successful as it is because of the perception of exclusivity - the best, newest apps will always be on iPhone first. Whether they are free or cost $100 each doesn't really matter that much - it still means Apple is the premier mobile device bar none.

If they enabled more progressive webapp features, we'd start to see a lot more cross platform webapps. That would not be in Apple's interest.

Re: JSC loves ES6

#90

Post by rictic »

CharlesW wrote: post #88
zajd wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure Safari's features are intentionally crippled to keep their app ecosystem safe. See: web notifications.

Safari supports Web Notifications: http://caniuse.com/#feat=notifications Safari 11 supports WebRTC, Media Capture API, WebAssembly, WebCrypto API, drag-and-drop, and other interesting new features. If a crippled browser is their goal, they're doing quite an awful job of it.

http://caniuse.com/#feat=push-api is the interesting notifications API, which allows notifying a user (with their permission) even when the app isn't open. Neither API is supported on iOS Safari, and desktop Safari only supports notifications while the app is open.
Post reply on HN