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Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

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Re: Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

#101
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally don't see the outrage. AmaGoogSoft overcharges for data transfers because they know they can get away with it and that lowering it won't attract more customers. I know a handful of scientists, myself included, who would consider cloud computing were it not for the expensive egress costs. The ease of spinning up lots of computing power for scientific modelling is useless if retrieving the vast quantitie…

May I ask why you want to retrieve it? Wouldn't you just leave it there, and download only the conclusions?

[deleted]

Re: Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

#102
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use google cloud or softlayer and the same machine is $1500 a month. It's no secret that AWS is a rip off on instance pricing. Use the competitors if you worry so much about pricing.

How does that work out? Looking at the per-hour figures in AWS and GCE, they're similar for a 64-core, quarter terabyte RAM machine ($3.20 AWS, $3.40 GCE). Both vendors have ways to get your bill discounted (with google's being easier). AWS's instance pricing has been fairly comparable to other vendors for a couple of years now; it's their bandwidth that's costly. What are most people running anyway? Using this kind…

Google n1-standard-64 => $1710

AWS m4.16xlarge => $2592

Google base is slightly lower and it gives you 30% off automatically on instances that run 24/7 for the month.

That's typical of on premise deployments. You get big servers because they are so annoying to deploy you might as well fill everything possible in the box.

On the clouds, you would create a group of VM per service, with appropriate size for the service. It is significantly more efficient.

Re: Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

#103
post #71
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Will Dell servers magically appear in your racks all mounted correctly? Shipping delays is a very serious and real problem. 2. Will Dell servers arrived with 0 problems on its components? Any time I ordered meaningful amount of servers, I usually get about 5% fail rate. VMs aren't perfect but you can destroy and recreate in different region almost real time. 3. Ever had to deal with difficult-to-work-with network…

#3 is why we went to Amazon, and its one of the reasons we were successful. Sad as that was. No weeks/months of delays/hassles/fights/sabotage. Just success as fast as we could do our part and figure out the few small hurdles.

...That sounds more like an HR problem than a technical problem.

There are network engineers in the world who don't live in caves and gnaw at the bones of administrative assistants.

Re: Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

#104
post #84

Back of the envelope calculation: - assume $100/TB for cloud data transfer - assume one employee full time equivalent to manage colo'd servers ($10,000/mo), plus $30/TB data transfer The break even point for the colo'd setup from a networking perspective is: 10,000 + 30X = 100X X = 10,000/70 = 142 (TB/month) At 1MB per "request" I believe this works out to about 50 requests per second average to reach this traffic le…

50 rps is a very modest box you obviously will want at least 2 but at any rate the difference between that and AWS is not a full time employee it's more like 10h per month. Why would colo data transfer cost $30/TB :)?

The $30 number comes from the original article -- If I were to make the colo data transfer free and change nothing else, break even point is 100TB/mo.

For the employee cost I agree if you just have a couple boxes pumping out data your labor cost will be quite low. I'm imagining what else you might have happening on your back end using AWS services that you'd also have to replicate in your colocated installation to preserve the efficiency, which would take labor. For example, if you want some extra machines to do some load testing. Or if you need to store a bunch of data and want an S3-like system. Or if you want to wipe a machine and reinstall from an "image". The backup system, and backups testing. RDS, Aurora, DynamoDB, etc. Most of that can be done with a couple clicks on AWS.

Re: Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is simply untrue for bandwidth charges if you're pushing a lot of data. A streaming video service, for example, might end up paying $0.10/user/hour. So a movie-a-night customer would cost $6. What multiple of reasonable do you think that is?

About 2-3x. I'm a big fan of cloud computing in general (and AWS in particular as the clear leader, IMO) and helped lead our transition out of colos and into AWS, but the egress charges is the biggest area of AWS that I feel is egregiously over-priced. Fortunately, it's relatively easy to locate some of your very high egress services outside of AWS. I discourage that for casual optimization, but when you get to Netfl…

Speaking of Netflix:

“The best way to express it is that everything you see on Netflix up until the play button is on AWS, the actual video is delivered through our CDN,” Netflix spokesperson Joris Evers said.[1]

[1] http://www.networkworld.com/article/3037428/cloud-computing/...

Re: Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

#106
Meh.

The big cloud platforms offer a rich selection of different offerings, which (just like in every other industry) cross subsidize each other.

When I go to a restaurant, I don't expect that they will be making the same profit margin on every item on the final bill, and in fact, they almost never do. Drinks tend to have a very high profit margin, some labour intensive items may be a break even at best, and the complimentary bread sticks or chips and salsa (if offered) will certainly be a loss.

I guess I could write a very upset article about how my local mexican restaurant is SERIOUSLY SCREWING ME OVER with their drink prices, but if I don't write the companion piece about their cheap burritos (subsidized, of course, by the drink prices), it would only show half the picture.

The reality is that I'm buying a whole package (at AWS or a restaurant) and I should evaluate the whole picture. Yes, I can get bandwidth cheaper outside AWS (or a can of coke a lot cheaper from a big box retailer). But I can't really get the total package of integrated, managed services outside AWS (certainly not for the cost they charge), any more than I can get someone else to show up in my kitchen and cook a three piece meal and then do all the dishes. (Which is to say, I totally could hire a chef to do that, but it would cost me a lot more. I could BUILD an internal SQS clone if I had to, but my employer would never break even on the cost of getting me to do so.)

AWS is very cheap for some things and very expensive for others. Depending on your usage and workload it may or may not be economical to buy the package they offer. If it is, go for it. If not, don't. Just like, you know, every other good or service you purchase in both your personal and professional life.

Re: Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

#107

"Amazon EC2, Microsoft Azure and Google Gloud Platform are all seriously screwing their customers over when it comes to bandwidth charges." Disagree. There's no false advertising here, they're making you pay for their service and convenience of using a combined [Paas, Iaas, Saas ..etc]. It's unfair to view these services as a singular function, you typically touch MANY features/products in production. The cost includ…

Considering my experience with google adwords service, I wouldn't be surprised if the teams providing these services were under heavy pressure to over-promise, under-deliver, and sneak in as many hidden charges as they possibly can.

Very Evil is 'ad-words' when they first started it was ok but in the late 90's they started those ad-clicks all over the world, all of a sudden people in Nigeria were clicking your ad's for $1/click.

Funny thing is every time Google added a new service you were opted in, until you turned it off, you didn't know there was a new service unless your monthly bill went up 10X, and went on like this for years.

99% of our biz was europe-usa, we had turned off all ad's outside those area's, but google kept creating new products and featuring our ad's all over Africa, where we had never shipped a product in our entire history.

Finally simply quit using ad-words, gave up with their games.

AWS is evil, Google is Evil.

If you can't touch it, you don't own it; That includes your data.

That includes your server's, that includes your pipe

Google is NSA - Putin

"Do no Evil"

Amazon is CIA

Re: Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is simply untrue for bandwidth charges if you're pushing a lot of data. A streaming video service, for example, might end up paying $0.10/user/hour. So a movie-a-night customer would cost $6. What multiple of reasonable do you think that is?

A good case study is Dropbox. They didn't build any of their own infrastructure until they became big enough (2 years ago).

The fact here isn't quite right. (I'm an employee at Dropbox)

Primarily, until 2 years ago we did lean on S3 for all block storage, but most of the rest of the infrastructure (metadata storage, etc) ran in our own datacenters.

Your point I think you're getting at sounds like something I'd agree with though -- you can wait a bit the cost efficiency starts to be what is important/impactful to work on before shifting your usage away from some of these providers.

Re: Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

#109
post #103
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

#3 is why we went to Amazon, and its one of the reasons we were successful. Sad as that was. No weeks/months of delays/hassles/fights/sabotage. Just success as fast as we could do our part and figure out the few small hurdles.

...That sounds more like an HR problem than a technical problem. There are network engineers in the world who don't live in caves and gnaw at the bones of administrative assistants.

Oh it was, but it was the situation we had to operate in.

And Amazon allowed to to achieve amazing things that never would have been possible and that's without the idea of things like Kinesis or Redshift that we couldn't have achieved easily/at all even without personnel problems. You simply could never get 3 new servers or drastically respec an existing one in under a day let alone minutes. We were a small shop so it's not like we had spare servers ready to go.

Re: Comparing Bandwidth Costs of Amazon, Google and Microsoft Cloud Computing

#110
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

hopefully with your spare 3437 dollars a month you could figure out how to ever maintain such a thing.

... per server. It really, really depends on on your use case, but there are some scenarios where bare metal just makes more sense. Also there are ones where cloud makes everything much easier. North America-oriented B2B app that's a JavaScript SPA witch connects to some lightweight services fronting a database? I think that's a great contender for the cloud. 500-node Hadoop cluster running 24/7 with heavy load? You…

This.

Like every IT trend, "Cloud ops" is the trendy mind-slug that eats everyone's brain and makes them say that everyone who doesn't jump on the bandwagon is going to die broke and unloved in the gutter.

Remember how XML meant massively reduced integration costs and firing all your developers because GUI tools would let business managers connect pretty boxes and then kick back to watch the graphs go up and to the right as business exploded?

Yeah, so AWS is great, if you're building something that works well on AWS. And that's a large class of apps - if you're throwing up a Drupal front end to a CRUD line-of-business backend, need to push notifications and send some email, sure. You're dead in the middle of their target market.

Doing something interesting? Doesn't even have to be as massive as the parent suggests - if you're doing something that blows any of the billable parameters out of the sweet-spot, like bandwidth, storage, latency requirements, things that depend on system-locality, etc., you're much better off building, and using AWS for the pieces which can be broken off that don't hit the pain points.

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