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JSC loves ES6

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Re: JSC loves ES6

#21

Post by vmasto »

ergothus wrote: post #16
vmasto wrote: post #15

I really wish we would stop calling it ES6. Browser vendors should be especially careful to call ES2015 by its correct name and help stop perpetuating the confusion (ES6, ES7, ES2016, ES2017, you can see how this quickly gets confusing).

ES6 is 3 syllables. ES2015 is 6 or 7 (depending if you say "twenty fifteen" or "two thousand fifteen"). I'm a dev. I'm lazy. I have no particular objection to the idea of moving away from ES6 as a name, but if the new name isn't more useful, it's not going to gain any ground.

Unfortunately it's the name we're stuck with though, and it makes a lot more sense because ECMA releases are yearly.

Not judging, but if high profile articles and browser vendors started addressing it correctly we wouldnt have any issues migrating, more syllables or not.

Re: JSC loves ES6

#22

Post by om2 »

Androider wrote: post #10

The benchmark at the bottom showing how far behind Firefox has fallen on JS performance is pretty telling. It confirms my own recent observation that Firefox is at least 3-6 times slower in practice for the particular app I'm working on.

This benchmark is only representative for websites built with lots of new ES6+ features. On general JS performance, Firefox isn't quite that far behind (but still behind to the best of my knowledge).

Re: JSC loves ES6

#23

Post by kevingadd »

Androider wrote: post #10

The benchmark at the bottom showing how far behind Firefox has fallen on JS performance is pretty telling. It confirms my own recent observation that Firefox is at least 3-6 times slower in practice for the particular app I'm working on.

A vendor is always the fastest when they roll out a new benchmark. It's disingenuous to suggest a browser is '3-6x slower' based on a score on one benchmark, when all the vendors actively compete on and optimize against a large set of benchmarks, and compare each others' performance numbers on individual tests to understand engine weaknesses/strengths.

fwiw, Chrome, Firefox and Safari have all been fairly competitive on the major performance benchmark (Octane) for a while, with jsc taking a bit to catch up to the others. Sunspider and Kraken are now relatively outdated because everyone is fast on them:

https://arewefastyet.com/

Octane is on the way out, so I have no doubt that the vendors will all pull close together on this new Apple benchmark set once they have time to optimize for it, since most of these benchmarks are cynical gaming anyway more than they are real applications. (Octane, which is culled from real webapps, had a glaring bug in one of its test cases for a while that happened to make v8 much faster at the cost of the test not actually doing real work.)

It's also silly to judge a browser's performance based on how fast bleeding-edge features are. Bleeding-edge features can't be fully/effectively optimized until there are real-world examples of how they are used.

P.S. it may be interesting to look at https://arewefastyet.com/#machine=36 and note that the JS runtime in MS's Edge is shockingly competitive on these benchmarks as well. You can't count anyone out of the race.

Re: JSC loves ES6

#24

Post by franciscop »

Androider wrote: post #10

The benchmark at the bottom showing how far behind Firefox has fallen on JS performance is pretty telling. It confirms my own recent observation that Firefox is at least 3-6 times slower in practice for the particular app I'm working on.

Well, that should be pretty non-surprising. There are 4 mayor Javascript engines and 3 of them belong to some of the largest companies in the world (Apple, Alphabet and Microsoft). It was just a matter of time before they caught up through throwing money at the problem. I use Firefox (except for Hangouts) but I understand Chrome's advantaged situation will probably allow them to be the sole competitor in the near-middle future.

Re: JSC loves ES6

#25

Post by jonas21 »

franciscop wrote: post #24
Androider wrote: post #10

The benchmark at the bottom showing how far behind Firefox has fallen on JS performance is pretty telling. It confirms my own recent observation that Firefox is at least 3-6 times slower in practice for the particular app I'm working on.

Well, that should be pretty non-surprising. There are 4 mayor Javascript engines and 3 of them belong to some of the largest companies in the world (Apple, Alphabet and Microsoft). It was just a matter of time before they caught up through throwing money at the problem. I use Firefox (except for Hangouts) but I understand Chrome's advantaged situation will probably allow them to be the sole competitor in the near-mid…

On the other hand, it's not like Firefox is the side project of a few of people in their spare time -- the Mozilla Foundation has annual revenue of over $400 million!

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation

Re: JSC loves ES6

#26

Post by franciscop »

jonas21 wrote: post #25
franciscop wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, that should be pretty non-surprising. There are 4 mayor Javascript engines and 3 of them belong to some of the largest companies in the world (Apple, Alphabet and Microsoft). It was just a matter of time before they caught up through throwing money at the problem. I use Firefox (except for Hangouts) but I understand Chrome's advantaged situation will probably allow them to be the sole competitor in the near-mid…

On the other hand, it's not like Firefox is the side project of a few of people in their spare time -- the Mozilla Foundation has annual revenue of over $400 million! [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mozilla_Foundation

I do not have an inside look, but if I remember correctly there were few calls about Mozilla losing focus on Firefox through making Firefox OS for a few years, which is exactly when the other vendors were reinventing their engines. They made some great work with Rust though (;

Re: JSC loves ES6

#27

Post by [deleted] »

caiob wrote: post #5

Worth noting that Safari Technology Preview was the first browser to support all of ECMAScript 2016+ features. * http://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es2016plus/

[deleted]

Re: JSC loves ES6

#29

Post by jfbastien »

saamyjoon wrote: post #28
iddan wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will look bad they are two years behind.

How so? Go to: http://kangax.github.io/compat-table/es2016plus/ In STP or WebKit nightly

I think OP meant 2015 is two years ago, claiming it makes it look behind.

Truth is, ES6 is what we've called it, ES2015 is to confusing cool new name!

Re: JSC loves ES6

#30

Post by rhizome »

om2 wrote: post #22
Androider wrote: post #10

The benchmark at the bottom showing how far behind Firefox has fallen on JS performance is pretty telling. It confirms my own recent observation that Firefox is at least 3-6 times slower in practice for the particular app I'm working on.

This benchmark is only representative for websites built with lots of new ES6+ features. On general JS performance, Firefox isn't quite that far behind (but still behind to the best of my knowledge).

And that's all fine...in a lab. In the real world, all I have to do to experience Firefox's performance is click "Home" on my Twitter account. More often than not I'll get an alert that "A script has stopped responding [...] Continue / Stop Script," and it will still take 60+ secs to finish refreshing the page. Meanwhile, all Firefox tabs and window instances are frozen.
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